Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The IDF upgrade is good news, but I suspect the funds were only allocated because US refused to sell new F-16's, and with pending retirement of F-5's, the ROCAF needed the IDF upgrades to maintain its capability. Had the US agreed to sell new F-16C/D's, the ROC government would've been less inclined to invest in domstic defense industry.

The current exchange rate is about NT 30 : 1 USD, so NT 80 billion for 50 trainers = $53.3 million dollars each. That's... a lot of money considering the proposed IDF LIFT trainer was estimated at $16 million, and the Korean T-50 at $21 million each. I guess the budget probably includes R&D funding for a new aircraft design.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
The IDF upgrade is good news, but I suspect the funds were only allocated because US refused to sell new F-16's, and with pending retirement of F-5's, the ROCAF needed the IDF upgrades to maintain its capability. Had the US agreed to sell new F-16C/D's, the ROC government would've been less inclined to invest in domstic defense industry.

The current exchange rate is about NT 30 : 1 USD, so NT 80 billion for 50 trainers = $53.3 million dollars each. That's... a lot of money considering the proposed IDF LIFT trainer was estimated at $16 million, and the Korean T-50 at $21 million each. I guess the budget probably includes R&D funding for a new aircraft design.

$53.3 million each for a trainer is pretty pricey and could indicate that AIDC may be in charge of developing a new aircraft indicating an investment in R&D and eventually, production. But what role would this expensive trainer be? The ROCAF's advanced trainer, the AIDC AT-3s date from 1984-1990 while the ROCAF's T-34Cs also date from the mid-80s. As far as training aircraft goes, thats not terribly old for trainers, many countries are currently operating training aircraft from the late 80s with no sign of replacing them. This is of course speculation, but the order for 50 aircraft is what stood out for me, since the number is very close to 60, the number of active F-5E/Fs the ROCAF are currently operating. Perhaps these new advanced trainers are being considered to replace the F-5 fleet as a politically un-controversial option to attain more military aircraft?
 

MwRYum

Major
$53.3 million each for a trainer is pretty pricey and could indicate that AIDC may be in charge of developing a new aircraft indicating an investment in R&D and eventually, production. But what role would this expensive trainer be? The ROCAF's advanced trainer, the AIDC AT-3s date from 1984-1990 while the ROCAF's T-34Cs also date from the mid-80s. As far as training aircraft goes, thats not terribly old for trainers, many countries are currently operating training aircraft from the late 80s with no sign of replacing them. This is of course speculation, but the order for 50 aircraft is what stood out for me, since the number is very close to 60, the number of active F-5E/Fs the ROCAF are currently operating. Perhaps these new advanced trainers are being considered to replace the F-5 fleet as a politically un-controversial option to attain more military aircraft?

Interesting piece of this month's issue of Defense International (Taiwan's own defense publication) gave an interesting insight into to problem of ROCAF F-5E/F - that while Taiwan's F-5E/F fleet is about as old (or younger even) as those who still operating them around the world, there was no extensive MLU programme performed on them (ie. only done structural overhaul, but without modern avionics to make them able to operate in all conditions of day and night, no NVS or GPS); worse, back when they put some of the airframes into storage due to arrival of IDF and F-16A/B (with more than half of their expected service life remains) the mothball process weren't don't right and most in the end no longer air worthy, fit for only as ground display.

Pretty much none of their decision makers were willing or could make the right decision in getting what's necessary for their troops, and spend too much time squabbling instead?
 
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Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Interesting piece of this month's issue of Defense International (Taiwan's own defense publication) gave an interesting insight into to problem of ROCAF F-5E/F - that while Taiwan's F-5E/F fleet is about as old (or younger even) as those who still operating them around the world, there was no extensive MLU programme performed on them (ie. only done structural overhaul, but without modern avionics to make them able to operate in all conditions of day and night, no NVS or GPS); worse, back when they put some of the airframes into storage due to arrival of IDF and F-16A/B (with more than half of their expected service life remains) the mothball process weren't don't right and most in the end no longer air worthy, fit for only as ground display.

Pretty much none of their decision makers were willing or could make the right decision in getting what's necessary for their troops, and spend too much time squabbling instead?

There was a plan back in the early 2000s to radically refurbish the F-5E fleet by AIDC called Tiger 2000/2001. Along with an overall refurbishment of the aircraft, a new GD-53 radar (the same used in the IDF), MFD, HOTAS and the capability to carry a single centerline TC-2 medium range AA missile. The plan did not curry a lot of favour with thE ROCAF top brass and the project was canceled after the Tiger 2000's maiden flight in 2002. The only prototype for the project is now a static display in a park...
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
There was a plan back in the early 2000s to radically refurbish the F-5E fleet by AIDC called Tiger 2000/2001. Along with an overall refurbishment of the aircraft, a new GD-53 radar (the same used in the IDF), MFD, HOTAS and the capability to carry a single centerline TC-2 medium range AA missile. The plan did not curry a lot of favour with thE ROCAF top brass and the project was canceled after the Tiger 2000's maiden flight in 2002. The only prototype for the project is now a static display in a park...

The Tiger 2000/2001 project went nowhere because the timing is too late, and AIDC was trying to reinvent the wheel. If it was 1991 instead of 2001, when Singapore had already invested years to successfully roll out the F-5S upgrade, AIDC could've imported same or similiar systems. Relations between SG and ROC military are also quite good, so they could've probably paid Singapore for technical assistance and knowledge transfer for the F-5 upgrade project.

If we look at Australia's FFG Upgrade Project, and the years and high costs paid to resolve all the issues, it's no wonder that PLAN is so conservative with their navy ship upgrades. If the ROCN should ever consider doing major upgrades to their OH Perry class ships, I hope they'd go to AUS government for help and not try to reinvent the wheel from scratch.

To give an analogy, it's sometimes better (and cheaper) to knock down an old house and build a new one on top, vesus trying to add a 2nd floor to a single-level house. If someone else had already done it and proved that it's cost effective, great. But chances are that you'd have so many unexpected (and costly) issues, it might have been better to just pay for a new house.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
The Tiger 2000/2001 project went nowhere because the timing is too late, and AIDC was trying to reinvent the wheel. If it was 1991 instead of 2001, when Singapore had already invested years to successfully roll out the F-5S upgrade, AIDC could've imported same or similiar systems. Relations between SG and ROC military are also quite good, so they could've probably paid Singapore for technical assistance and knowledge transfer for the F-5 upgrade project.

If we look at Australia's FFG Upgrade Project, and the years and high costs paid to resolve all the issues, it's no wonder that PLAN is so conservative with their navy ship upgrades. If the ROCN should ever consider doing major upgrades to their OH Perry class ships, I hope they'd go to AUS government for help and not try to reinvent the wheel from scratch.

To give an analogy, it's sometimes better (and cheaper) to knock down an old house and build a new one on top, vesus trying to add a 2nd floor to a single-level house. If someone else had already done it and proved that it's cost effective, great. But chances are that you'd have so many unexpected (and costly) issues, it might have been better to just pay for a new house.

The problem is that when the Tiger 2000 project was canceled, so were any attempt refurbish the F-5 fleet and now we're in the situation they are in today where they are just plain unsafe to play
 

cptplt

Junior Member
The F5s are already used primarily as Advanced Lead In Trainers. Upgraded IDFS will provide far more combat capability than the F5s presently do and better training too. Then the 50 "new trainers" take over from the AT3s and provide some of the F5 training capability. Hopefully they will go with an IDF variant and keep some local manufacturing capability going.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Another Chinese spy caught in Taiwan. God dang the Chinese Ministry of Public Security is good! Not only did MPS catch a Taiwanese spy in Taiwan, they convinced the spy to turn his handler, a Taiwanese intelligence agent, into a spy for China. That is bold.

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Lo Chi-cheng recruited Lo Bin as an informer in 2003 to help the him gather military intelligence on China, but the businessman was let go by the Military Intelligence Bureau in 2005 because of suspicions his cover had been blown.

Lo Bin was later arrested by China's Ministry of State Security while on a trip to China in 2006.

At the time, the businessman confessed to being an informant for a Taiwanese military intelligence officer and was asked by Chinese officials to turn Lo Chi-cheng into an informant for China.

The Taiwanese intelligence officer agreed to become a double agent, and not only leaked classified military information to the Chinese, but also earned extra money by providing false Chinese intelligence to Taiwan's Military Intelligence Bureau.
 

cptplt

Junior Member
Block 3 apaches due next year

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On 2 November, Boeing delivered the first two of 690 AH-64D Apache Longbow Block III attack helicopters to the US Army.

A training aircraft will also be delivered to the first export customer - Taiwan - in mid-2012, with the balance of the nation's order for 30 Block III aircraft to begin delivery a year later.
 
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