Syrian Crisis...2013

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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History is the guide here. With all the intel and high tech weaponry at their fingertips, the US, when they went all out to try and decapitaite Libya and Iraq, were unable to get Quadafi or Sadam Hussein with such strikes.

Here, the U S has specifically said it does not intend to do this, and has telegraphed this thing now for weeks. There will be no "surpise" and Assad has all the opportunity to move his own assestts and himself around to places of safety. Heck, when the time came close he should go dockside to the Russian vessels in port there.

But the US is not going to try and kill Assad. There is just far too much down side potential for that.

Therefore, the Russians will not instigate a shooting war between themselves and the US on the off chance that the US is not telling the truth about the intent of the strike.

It is not underestimating him to indicate that he is willing to conduct such a strike because he warned Assad to not cross a particular line, and then declares (twice now) that Assad has done so.

At any rate, this whole thing is more about Obama's international policy in the Mid-East coming completely undone than it would even be about him specifically saving face. I do not believe Assad used the weapons, not for a minute.

There is no proof that he did...just vague intel and hearsay based (IMHO) on what they want to believe happened.

For anyone looking at this rationally, it is obvious who had the most to gain and who had the most to loose by claiming Assad used such weapons. We know the rebels have them too, and they have videoed themselves using them.

Anyhow, at this point, it is a matter of waiting to see:

1) Will the US Congress authorize the use of force. The Senate, IMHO, is a fore gone conclusion and will vote, "Yes." The House however is not such a sure thing. Even though Boehner is saying he supports it, he has also said that it is up to Obama to convince his collegues to vote. IOW, Boehner is not willing to go out on any limb and tell others to support it because he believes it could well fail and doesn;t wnat the failure strapped around his neck.

If they do approve it, then a strike will follow quickly and we can then:

2) See what Russia does once those Tomahawks start flying.

I would like to come back on this on some general points Jeff, because I think they lie at the heart of the point that both Wolfie and I have been trying to make.
The argument between Russia and US is not about Punishment, Justice and Proportionality, it is about the very guilt itself.
Russia is not saying "Ok its a fair cop, Assad is banged to rights, let sort out the appropriate number of missiles and agree what they hit" Instead Russia is; I have no doubt, fully aware of what really happened, who it was that was responsible and knows well that Assad is being fitted up by Washington.

It is also a fair assumption that Washington is in doubt who actually did the attack and that it was not Assad. I have no doubt about that whatsoever.
Russia therefore knows that America wants specifically to blame Assad, irrespective of the truth. A lesser argument may be that Assad and his Government are bad people and need to be taken down for all the collective bad things they have done, irrespective of whether he did the Chemical attack or not. You could easily use the Al Capone example of Tax Evasion etc etc.
The trouble is, even this argument does not stack up because not only is the Assad not Hitler, the opposition are not Ghandi and Mother Theresa either. It is Al-qidea!

What then should Putin, Iran, China and many other countries think then when they look at this?
They will say "The Americans know exactly what happened here and even if they initially genuinely believed Assad was guilty, when they found out otherwise, they had the perfect foil to shift the blame onto. If there was one organisation that they could justify letting a Geopolitical opponent off the hook for, it is Al-Qidea. But they have not done so"

In fact it seems that rather than attribute blame, where it undoubtedly belongs, with the global terrorist organisation that has directly attacked the USA multiple times; not only abroad, but also at home, Washington would rather, knowingly, falsely accuse the Syrian Government and use this as a pretext to launch an attack, which has no legal basis in International Law whatsoever.
An attack which would be naked aggression as defined by International Law.

How can Putin and his allies conclude anything other that an attack launched by the US against Syria, under these circumstances cannot be for anything other than for the darkest of reasons and that nobody would go to these lengths of fabrication, just to justify a few missiles at a Milk Powder Factory.

Putin can only conclude the aim of such a actions would be not simply be a punitive warning, or even an attempt to change the game but a determination to end it.

I know that some people cannot conceive the Russians actively interdicting US missiles, but what makes anybody think that they would or could not do this? You have a situation where Russia is working with the legitimate government of a Sovereign State to prevent the aggression of an illegal attack, launched on the basis of a lie.

You cannot claim such an act as an escalation and then say that the Russians would themselves become a target. That would be an massive escalation and a wholly blatant aggression.

Obama has raised today the issue of credibility. I think Putin has a better claim to that argument for any interdiction he authorises, than does Mr Obama for ordering the attack.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Priazovye%20SSV201.jpg

I don't like to say this but the Russian vessels look old-style and outdated. I think the Russian Navy needs to be re-formatted!
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I don't like to say this but the Russian vessels look old-style and outdated. I think the Russian Navy needs to be re-formatted!
These vessels were built in the mid-1980s.

They are still very capable of doing their job, which was never anything razzle-dazzle or high tech (in terms of their hull, weapons, engines, etc.). They monitor frequencies and electronics.
 

no_name

Colonel
If US decides to launch strikes on Assad's forces that may be enough excuse for Russia to launch her on strikes on rebel's positions to even the odds out somewhat.

Because two can play the chemical attack blame game, all that is different is who to blame. Not to mention my money is on the rebels actually having already done what has been accused on Assad.

And if some foreign operatives on the ground gets caught in the middle well it is too bad.

For Assad being accused of making use of chemical weapons can get his guys whacked but the rebels (plus more than a good sprinkle of outright terrorists within their ranks) simply needs to be accused of being in possession of them. Since when do you need chem weapons for 'freedom and democracy'?
 
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delft

Brigadier
I don't like to say this but the Russian vessels look old-style and outdated. I think the Russian Navy needs to be re-formatted!
These ships need to be comfortable. They don't need to be sexy. The main point is that the crew can do its work under all circumstances.
 

delft

Brigadier
Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar on the proposed resolution for the US Congress titled Authorization for the Use of Military Force:
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Obama dips toe in Syrian Rubicon

By M K Bhadrakumar

For the first time through the two-year old Syrian conflict, the United States has mentioned the holy cow - "boots on the ground''. The Secretary of State John Kerry has pleaded that the US Congress should approve the use of American ground troops although the Obama administration may not intend to take recourse to such action.

This is a hugely significant turning point in the fast-developing scenario of US military intervention in Syria. There was added poignancy that Kerry was speaking at a congressional hearing on Tuesday with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, seated beside him.

Kerry's careful choice of words indicated that the deployment of ground troops in Syria is very much in the consideration zone of the White House. "I don't want to take off the table an option that might or might not be available to a president of the United States to secure our country," Kerry said.

He then went on to add the caveat that President Obama would exercise such an option of deploying ground troops in Syria if there is a potential threat of chemical weapons falling into the hands of extremists. As he put it,
In the event Syria imploded, for instance, or in the event there was a threat of a chemical weapons cache falling into the hands of [al-Qeda affiliate] al-Nusra or someone else, and it was clearly in the interests of our allies and all of us - the British, the French and others - to prevent those weapons of mass destruction falling into the hands of the worst elements.
Despite the scant support for US military action against Syria among the American public and despite the pockets of resistance on Capitol Hill, it is a foregone conclusion now that the US Congress will support US military action against Syria.

The two top Republicans, Speaker John Boehner and Majority Leader Eric Cantor, have both voiced support for Obama's decision to attack Syria. Boehner told reporters,
Only the United States has the capability and the capacity to stop Assad and to warn others around the world that this type of behavior is not going to be tolerated. I believe that my colleagues should support this call for action.
There were "telltale" signs already by last weekend that Obama's mind is furiously working and that he could be beginning to think about the unthinkable; namely, committing US ground troops to yet another Middle Eastern war. The point is, his administration's proposed resolution for the US Congress, titled Authorization for the Use of Military Force [AUMF] authorizes the president to use the armed forces "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate ... in order to:
(1) prevent or deter the use or proliferation (including the transfer to terrorist groups or other state or non-state actors), within, to or from Syria, of any weapons of mass destruction, including chemical or biological weapons or components of or materials used in such weapons; or
(2) protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons.
A leading international authority on the subject, Professor Jack Goldsmith at the Harvard Law School (who previously served as US Assistant Attorney General in the Office of Legal Counsel and also as Special Counsel to the Department of Defense, apart from being a member of the Hoover Institution Task Force on National Security and Law) warned on Sunday, "There is much more here [in the proposed AUMF] than at first meets the eye."

In a detailed commentary for the Lawfare journal, the professor wrote:
It [AUMF] authorizes the President to use any element of the US Armed Forces and any method of force. It does not contain specific limits on targets - either in terms of the identity of the targets (eg the Syrian government, Syrian rebels, Hezbollah, Iran) or the geography of the targets.

Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to take sides in the Syrian Civil War, or to attack Syrian rebels associated with al Qaeda, or to remove Assad from power? Yes, as long as the President determines that any of these entities has a (mere) connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and that the use of force against one of them would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the US or its allies (eg Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons. It is very easy to imagine the President making such determinations with regard to Assad or one or more of the rebel groups.

Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to use force against Iran or Hezbollah, in Iran or Lebanon? Again, yes, as long as the President determines that Iran or Hezbollah has a (mere) connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and the use of force against Iran or Hezbollah would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the US or its allies (eg Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons.

The proposed Syrian AUMF is worth a lot, for it would (in sum) permit the President to use military force against any target anywhere in the world (including Iran or Lebanon) as long as the President, in his discretion, determines the target has a connection to WMD in the Syrian civil war and the use of force has the purpose of preventing or deterring (broad concepts) the use or proliferation of WMDs in, to, or from Syria, or of protecting the US and its allies from the mere threat (again, a broad concept) of use or proliferation of WMDs connected to the Syrian conflict.

Congress needs to be careful about what it authorizes. [Italics as in original text.]
Quite obviously, a frightening scenario is looming large in front of world opinion. This could turn out to be the George W Bush doctrines of humanitarian intervention and "unilateralism" combined and multiplies by two.

To be sure, the joint US-Israeli missile test yesterday in Eastern Mediterranean has an ominous ring about it. What explains the shift in Obama's thinking? Or, has there been a shift at all and all we are witnessing is the unveiling of a hidden project? There are no easy answers.

To be sure, the US's regional allies - especially Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Israel - have been feeling terribly disheartened that Obama might strictly resort to the "limited action" he repeatedly promised to take against the Syrian regime, which would leave matters not only inconclusive in the civil war but even fail to turn the military balance in favor of the rebels. The worst fear of these allies has been that the Syrian regime might survive a volley of US missile attacks and President Bashar al-Assad himself would emerge triumphant having withstood a US attack.

Again, another main plank of criticism against "limited action" has been that it would settle nothing and the US would emerge looking an ineffectual and bumbling superpower, which would seriously dent its capacity to influence the future course of the civil war or play a defining role in the Middle East's issues. Misgivings have been expressed that Iran would become "uncontrollable" if the US' standing weakens at this crucial juncture.

Above all, the input for the White House from the Pentagon would have been that there is high danger in the US making an entry into Syria with one arm tied behind its back. US military doctrine has consistently favored maximum use of force to establish supremacy over the enemy.

One major constraint Dempsey had expressed was with regard to the financial cost of a full-bodied military intervention. It stands to reason that America's oil-rich Persian Gulf allies - for whose regimes this is after all an existential struggle - would have offered to defray much of the financial burden.

Finally, Bill Clinton's example with regard to Kosovo has willy-nilly become a benchmark for Obama. Clinton has been unabashedly advocating a Kosovo-like intervention in Syria - sidestep the UN Security Council, disregard opposition from Capitol Hill, act decisively and firmly in the US's supreme interests and create a fait accompli for the world community and the UN to come to terms with.

Suffice to say, a variety of factors would have come into play in Obama's calculus. It was being taken for granted that Obama will not cross the Rubicon of deploying ground troops in Syria under any circumstances. Even influential opinion makers in the US such as Senator John McCain shuddered at the very suggestion of "boots on the ground".

But Kerry's structured remarks on Tuesday indicate beyond doubt that all that could be dramatically changing. Conceivably, Obama can't take anymore the criticism that he is "weak", that he leads from the rear, that he is indecisive and so on. The very demarche by Kerry that congress should not restrict Obama's freedom of choice in expanding the parameters of the military intervention depending on the exigencies of the situation underscores that iron has entered into the president's soul.

It may be that this was not the presidential legacy that Obama would have been looking for after two terms in office as he set out from Chicago for the White House, And, arguably, this legacy is being thrust upon him by friends and allies - and force of circumstances. But then, he cannot escape the responsibility either. It is, if or when it is taken, without doubt, his choice in the ultimate analysis - and that is how it will go down in history books.

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar served as a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service for over 29 years, with postings including India's ambassador to Uzbekistan (1995-1998) and to Turkey (1998-2001).

(Copyright 2013 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
 

delft

Brigadier
Th correspondent in Turkey of my Dutch newspaper has visited the border with Syria and writes today in the paper that the people in North Syria who a year ago welcomed the Al Qaeda connected fighters because it would rid them of the thieves and robbers of the Free Syrian Army now just hope that Assad will win.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Three Russian warships crossed Turkey's Bosphorus Strait Thursday en route to the eastern Mediterranean, near the Syrian coast, amid concern in the region over potential US-led strikes in response to the Damascus regime's alleged use of chemical weapons.

The SSV-201 intelligence ship Priazovye, accompanied by the two landing ships Minsk and Novocherkassk passed through the Bosphorus known as the Istanbul strait that separates Asia from Europe, an AFP photographer reported.

The Priazovye on Sunday started its voyage from its home port of Sevastopol in Ukraine "to the appointed region of military service in the eastern Mediterranean", a military official told the Interfax news agency.

Russia, a key ally of Damascus, has kept a constant presence of around four warships in the eastern Mediterranean in the Syrian crisis, rotating them every few months.

It also has a naval base in the Syrian port of Tartus whose origins date back to Moscow's close relationship with Damascus under the Soviet Union.

Moscow vehemently opposes the US-led plans for military action against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in response to the chemical attack outside Damascus last month.

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned on Wednesday that any US Congress approval for a military strike against Syria without UN consensus would represent an "aggression".
 

Jeff Head

General
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Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar on the proposed resolution for the US Congress titled Authorization for the Use of Military Force:
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John Kerry said:
Kerry's careful choice of words indicated that the deployment of ground troops in Syria is very much in the consideration zone of the White House. "I don't want to take off the table an option that might or might not be available to a president of the United States to secure our country.

"In the event Syria imploded, for instance, or in the event there was a threat of a chemical weapons cache falling into the hands of al-Qeda affiliate al-Nusra or someone else, and it was clearly in the interests of our allies and all of us - the British, the French and others - to prevent those weapons of mass destruction falling into the hands of the worst elements.
What unmitigated Bravo Sierra!

Kerry KNOWS that the militatns already have the chemcial weapons. The militants themselves have produced videos of them using them.


[video=youtube;G5Tnh4C78Eo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Tnh4C78Eo[/video]

Kerry is simply an abject liar...and given his record over the years...always has been.

He's just in a much more dangerous position now.
 
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