Syrian Crisis...2013

delft

Brigadier
Connected matter:

With the poison gas provided by Saudi Arabia, according to Dale Gavlak, how can Obama explain to the Russians that he couldn't prevent SA operating terrorists in the Caucasus and threatening the Sochi Games?

Russia might provide anti aircraft missiles to Iran "to help it defend itself against Saudi Arabia".

At the next P5+1 meeting with Iran Russia and China might reject all US allegations against Iran and insist to end the sanctions.

By trying to save the subversion of Syria while it is already being defeated Obama endangers the whole US diplomatic position in the Middle East.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The arrival of the Moskva/Slava and Panteleiev/Udaloy were provided from a long time, to replace present ships , but for the moment the Moskva is to Venezula, 9000 km...
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The Obama administration has so many faces that it is almost impossible to really know who or what they are.

This morning individuals on Obama's national security team are now saying he is not "bound," by what congress votes and that he would/could act unilaterally even if they vote against him in congress, and do it anyway!

These people are simply crazy and sophomoric when it comes to national security and international relations.

I am ashamed to say that they are the leaders of our nation.

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Guardian said:
The Obama administration indicated on Sunday that it would launch military strikes against Syria even if it failed to get the backing of the US Congress, claiming evidence that sarin gas had been used in chemical attacks outside Damascus last month.

Less than a day after the president vowed to put an attack to a congressional vote, secretary of state John Kerry said the administration was determined to act against the regime of Bashar al-Assad, and did not need the backing of Congress to do so.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
At the next P5+1 meeting with Iran Russia and China might reject all US allegations against Iran and insist to end the sanctions.

By trying to save the subversion of Syria while it is already being defeated Obama endangers the whole US diplomatic position in the Middle East.

Maybe the target and goal isn't Syria but Iran itself. The US has had a hell of a lot of 'outs' it could have used to walk itself back from military action without loosing too much face.

The fact that it has ignored them all and further entrenched its position seems odd if Syria was all that was involved as there aren't any major US interests entangled with Syria, nor are there any noteworthy natural resources to use to finance reconstruction after. The sectarian nature of the violence also makes it exceedingly difficult to end the killings as the US knows first hand from its experience in Iraq.

On the face of it, Syria seems a text book example of a situation where you don't want to get involved militarily because no viable military solution exists for the problems at the root of the conflict, and that makes the singleminded stubbornness the US has displayed in trying to initiate a military intervention all the more puzzling. The positioning of the US navy is also a little odd if Syria was the sole and primary target, what with the US fleet split between the Med and the Indian Ocean.

However, if you consider the fact that Iranian Revolutionary Guards are reportedly already deeply engaged in Syria on Assad's side, the support Iran has given Assad, it is possible that the primary aim for American strikes on Syria is to bait Iran into responding somehow, which the US can then escalate into direct conflict between the US and Iran.

If that happened, Iran would be seen, if not as the bad guy, then at least as having brought the war on itself, and the US would get far less diplomatic push back than compared to if the US launched an unprovoked strike on Iran, especially since Iran's new moderate President Rouhani is likely to give the US far less ammunition to use to push for war.

If Iran was the target, the positioning of US naval assets would also make a great deal more sense, and I would not be surprised if many more carrier strike groups are close enough to be able to rush in and lend their support extremely quickly if the conflict broadened to include Iran. Obviously, the US does not want to tip its hand or scare Iran off by amassing too much firepower in the region, but a single carrier, with the carrier not supposed to even conduct any strikes, and a handful of ships seem almost a little too threadbare a force considering the usual US penchant for extreme overkill.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views

A Royal Navy Trafalgar Class SSN is one it's way to the Mediterranean, it is there to provide Tomahawk cover

That doesn't mean it will engage in military action but it's likely as in Libya RN SSN fired off tomahawks at Gaddafi targets

The aim here is to hit all major military installations to paralyse Assads forces then allow rebels on push on

What happens after that is anyone's guess

OT - Just for my own edification, does the British PM have the authority to authorized limited military operations w/o the approval/permission of Parliament/Congress like our POTUS does?
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views

OT - Just for my own edification, does the British PM have the authority to authorized limited military operations w/o the approval/permission of Parliament/Congress like our POTUS does?

Yes he does, but the political risks are very high, as Parliament could vote to stop the action after he has authorised it and the authority of Parliament is supreme in British Law.

For this reason, it is very unlikely that any Prime Minister would attempt to use such powers outside of a State of Emergency and associated Government of National Unity (ie the suspension of normal democracy). The conditions are really reserved for times when the continued survival or independence of the nation are at stake.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
plawolf sez..

If Iran was the target, the positioning of US naval assets would also make a great deal more sense, and I would not be surprised if many more carrier strike groups are close enough to be able to rush in and lend their support extremely quickly if the conflict broadened to include Iran.

Right now on only one Atlantic fleet CVN would be able to deploy. George H.W.Bush.

Two Pacific Fleet CVN could deploy to that region..George Washington & Carl Vinson.. I doubt if the US would send George Washington Her duty is to remain deployable in the Western Pacific. Presently Carl Vinson is operating in & out of her San Diego homeport.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
plawolf sez..



Right now on only one Atlantic fleet CVN would be able to deploy. George H.W.Bush.

Two Pacific Fleet CVN could deploy to that region..George Washington & Carl Vinson.. I doubt if the US would send George Washington Her duty is to remain deployable in the Western Pacific. Presently Carl Vinson is operating in & out of her San Diego homeport.

bd what about the Roosevelt? I think she just got sent back to the fleet after her mid life refuel. Obama is waiting for Congress to come back from their golf outings so it'll be another week or so before any strikes is going to happen.
 

kalel17

New Member
Anybody remember Danny the "brave" Syrian activists? Well check out this:

Anderson Cooper and CNN have been caught staging fake news about Syria to justify military intervention.

The primary “witness” that the mainstream media is using as a source in Syria has been caught staging fake news segments. Recent video evidence proves that “Syria Danny”, the supposed activist who has been begging for military intervention on CNN, is really just a paid actor and a liar.

While Assad is definitely a tyrant like any head of state, a US invasion of the country is a worst case scenario for the people living there.

By pointing out that the mainstream media is orchestrating their entire coverage of this incident, we are not denying that there is a tremendous amount of death and violence in Syria right now. However, we are showing that the mainstream media version of events is scripted and staged propaganda.

The following video shows him contradicting himself while off air, and even asking crew members to “get the gunfire sounds ready” for his video conference with Anderson Cooper on CNN.

[video=youtube;p-DCZxsrt9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-DCZxsrt9I[/video]


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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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We will have to wait for confirmation form another news source before accepting that one.
Mean time.
September 1, 2013
In Syria, Anger and Mockery as Obama Delays Plan
By ANNE BARNARD and GERRY MULLANY
BEIRUT, Lebanon — President Obama’s decision to seek Congressional approval for a military strike in response to reports of a chemical weapons attack in Syria drew a range of reactions from Syrians on Sunday, with rebel leaders expressing disappointment and goverment leaders questioning Mr. Obama’s leadership.

Syria’s government on Sunday mocked Mr. Obama’s decision, saying it was a sign of weakness. A state-run newspaper, Al Thawra, called it “the start of the historic American retreat,” and said Mr. Obama had hesitated because of a “sense of implicit defeat and the disappearance of his allies,” along with fears that an intervention could become “an open war.”

Syria’s deputy foreign minister, Faisal Mekdad, told reporters in Damascus that “it is clear there was a sense of hesitation and disappointment in what was said by President Barack Obama yesterday. And it is also clear there was a sense of confusion, as well.”

Many Syrian opposition leaders expressed disappointment about the move, and called on Congress to approve a military strike. The leaders said any intervention should be accompanied by more arms for the rebels.

“Dictatorships like Iran and North Korea are watching closely to see how the free world responds to the Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons against the Syrian people,” the opposition coalition said in a statement issued in Istanbul.

Still, some rebel leaders were angry. A member of Syria’s opposition National Coalition, Samir Nachar, called Mr. Obama a “weak president who cannot make the right decision when it comes to such an urgent crisis.”

“We were expecting things to be quicker,” Mr. Nachar told reporters, “that a strike would be imminent.”

In the wider Arab world, still deeply divided over President Bashar al-Assad of Syria and the uprising against him, the concern over his government’s indiscriminate use of force coincided with antipathy about American intervention.

The Al-Azhar University in Cairo, considered Sunni Islam’s highest authority, said on Sunday that it opposed an American strike on Syria, calling such intervention “an aggression against the Arab and Islamic nation” that would endanger peace and security in the region.

But the institution said it supported “the right of the Syrian people to decide their destiny and their government for themselves in all freedom and transparency,” and condemned “recourse to chemical weapons, whoever it was that used them.”

The Arab League was scheduled to meet and Washington was hoping to win stronger statements against Mr. Assad. The group expelled Syria earlier in the uprising but has stopped short of backing American action or blaming Mr. Assad for any chemical weapons use.

For others, Mr. Obama’s decision raised questions about whether the United States had diminished its leadership role in foreign affairs, with commentators in Israel fearing a weakening of American resolve in confronting hostile powers.

The Israel newspaper Haaretz carried an analysis on Sunday by Amos Harel, a military analyst, saying that Mr. Obama’s postponement of a military strike against Syria suggested that he would be less likely to confront Iran on its nuclear program going forward, and that in the Arab world, he would now be “seen as weak, hesitant and vacillating.”

“The Obama administration’s conduct gives us insight into the strategic challenge posed by Iran’s nuclear program,” the analysis said. “From an Israeli point of view, the conclusion is far from encouraging. The theory that the U.S. will come to Israel’s aid at the last minute, and attack Iran to lift the nuclear threat, seems less and less likely.

“It’s no wonder that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is becoming increasingly persuaded that no one will come to his aid if Iran suddenly announces that it is beginning to enrich uranium to 90 percent,” it said.

In the conservative Telegraph newspaper in Britain, the columnist Tim Stanley said that Mr. Obama gave a “remarkable performance” in his Saturday speech detailing his new approach on Syria. But he said that Britain deserved credit for serving as a model for Mr. Obama’s approach, citing how Parliament’s vote against military action led Prime Minister David Cameron to rule out military participation in any strike on Syria.

“So we basically taught Obama to respect his own constitution,” Mr. Stanley, a historian, wrote. “No need to thank us, America.”

Mr. Obama’s announcement that he would seek Congressional approval came after thousands of protesters held demonstrations in several cities abroad against an American military strike, with an estimated 1,000 people rallying in Trafalgar Square in London and 700 people turning out to protest in Frankfurt. Protests were also held in the United States, including in Washington.

In France, the interior minister, Manuel Valls, told Europe 1 radio that the nation, which had supported a strike, would not act alone but would wait for a decision by Washington. “France cannot go it alone,” Mr. Valls said, according to Reuters. “We need a coalition.”

Reaction from other leaders was scarce on Sunday. On Tuesday, Mr. Obama heads to St. Petersburg, Russia, for a gathering of world leaders at the G-20 summit meeting. There, he is expected to try to lobby his counterparts for military action against Syria.

But he will probably not lobby President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, the host of the event, who has been a strong opponent of any outside military action. Mr. Putin said it would have been “utter nonsense” for Syria to use chemical weapons, and he challenged the United States to provide evidence of such behavior by Russia’s longtime ally.

Mr. Obama’s original plans to meet with Mr. Putin at the summit meeting were shelved last month because of American anger over Russia’s decision to grant temporary asylum to Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who disclosed secret American surveillance programs.

Without support from Russia for a military strike, the United States was unable to secure backing in the United Nations Security Council for a British-proposed resolution to authorize the use of military force against Syria. On Saturday, United Nations inspectors left Syria after a four-day visit to investigate the reports of a chemical attack, and the team is analyzing what it found.

China, another Security Council member, was similarly wary of any military strike on Syria, with the state news media warning Thursday that any armed intervention “would have dire consequences for regional security and violate the norms governing international relations.” Beijing supported the deployment of chemical weapons inspectors and has said that the United States should await the results of their work before acting.

A Chinese expert on the Middle East, Yin Gang, said on Sunday that Mr. Obama’s decision to go through Congress made the president appear weak.

“He doesn’t want to fight; he doesn’t know the outcome,” said Mr. Yin, of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. “He’s afraid, very afraid.”

All along, China has counseled a political solution, and Mr. Yin said the meeting of the G-20 in St. Petersburg could lead to momentum for talks about how to handle Syrian behavior.

“All the leaders will talk on this topic at the summit, and maybe it can lead to a new direction, to a political solution,” he said.

A Chinese specialist on Syria, Guo Xian’gang, said Mr. Obama would face opposition from Russia, China and other non-Western countries at the G-20 summit meeting for any military action.

“They will suggest to President Obama that if he wants to take action, there should be clear evidence that Syria used chemical weapons,” said Mr. Guo, of the Chinese Institute of International Relations. “They will also say that Obama must get the permission of the United Nations.”

Anne Barnard reported from Beirut, Lebanon, and Gerry Mullany from Hong Kong. Jane Perlez contributed reporting from Beijing.

Kerry: Samples from Syria tested positive for sarin
By Carrie Dann, Political Reporter, NBC News
Secretary of State John Kerry said Sunday that samples collected by first responders after the reported August 21 chemical weapons attack in Syria have tested positive for the nerve agent sarin.
"In the last 24 hours, we have learned through samples that were provided to the United States that have now been tested from first responders in east Damascus and hair samples and blood samples have tested positive for signatures of sarin," Kerry said on NBC's Meet The Press. "So this case is building and this case will build."
Sarin is a man-made chemical warfare agent considered the most toxic and fast-acting of its kind. The odorless, colorless nerve agent interferes with an enzyme called acetylcholinesterase, which controls nerve signals to the muscles.

Secretary of State John Kerry tells David Gregory on Meet the Press that all signs suggest that Syrian leader Bashar Assad used the nerve agent in his alleged chemical weapons attack.



Kerry said the use of chemical weapons puts Syrian President Bashar Assad in the same category as the world's most bloody dictators.
"Bashar Assad now joins the list of Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein [who] have used these weapons in time of war," he said.
Kerry's statement comes the day after President Barack Obama announced that he will seek congressional authorization for a military strike in Syria. The U.S. has said it has "high confidence" in intelligence assessments that show the chemical weapons attack that killed over 1400 people - including hundreds of children - was launched by the Syrian regime.
The former Massachusetts senator said Sunday that he believes Congress will pass a measure to authorize the use of force in Syria.
WATCH: Kerry says, 'I don't think Congress will turn its back on this moment'
"I don't believe that my former colleagues in the United States Senate and the House will turn their backs on all of our interests, on the credibility of our country, on the norm with respect to the enforcement of the prohibition against the use of chemical weapons, which has been in place since 1925," he said.
But Kerry would not say whether the president would act even if Congress votes against intervention .
"I said that the president has the authority to act, but the Congress is going to do what's right here," he answered when pressed by NBC's David Gregory.
In a forceful speech on Friday, Kerry called Syrian President Bashar Assad a "thug and a murderer" who turned chemical weapons on innocent people in east Damascus.
"This is the indiscriminate, inconceivable horror of chemical weapons," he said. "This is what Assad did to his own people."
On Sunday, Kerry declined to describe the new evidence of Sarin use as a 'slam dunk' in the case against Assad, but he reiterated that the United States continues to have "high confidence" in its case against the regime.
"The word "slam-dunk" should be retired from American national security issues," he said. "We are saying that the high confidence that the intelligence community has expressed and the case that I laid out the other day is growing stronger by the day."
One point I would like to make is Sarin right now in the middle east is popping up like starbucks! A few months back a AQ sarin gas lab was found in Yemen. IN Iraq Insurgents attached to AQ in Iraq attempted to use Sarin on a number of occasions against both Iraqis and occupation troops notably
2004: Iraqi insurgents detonated a 155 mm shell containing binary precursors for sarin near a U.S. convoy in Iraq. The shell was designed to mix the chemicals as it spins during flight. The detonated shell released only a small amount of sarin gas, either because the explosion failed to mix the binary agents properly or because the chemicals inside the shell had degraded with age. Two United States soldiers were treated after displaying the early symptoms of exposure to sarin
The compound has been manufactured by small groups before notably the Japanese subway attack in 95 by Aum Shinrikyo . so really the gas could have come from any one.
 
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