South East Asia Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

advill · May 15, 2014

Re: Little union state @ myanmar between 2 racing super power countries @2.5billions

Myanmar is becoming a responsible country in Asia. It has proved to be a relatively good Chairman of the recent ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in its capital Nya-Pi-Daw. It handled the South China Sea issues relatively well without fear or favor. This country has several long standing problems, but given the opportunity and support from ASEAN members and the International Community, Myanmar will emerge a strong, and hopefully a more democratic nation.

bomber said:
The newly rebuild democratic union @REPUBLIC OF UNION OF MYANMAR is surrounded hyper populated states ,approx:2.5billions peoples.Neighbouring countries & people osamosis into MYANMAR is never ending and conspiracy on internal affairs by supporting weapons to all ethnics & former communist rebels .
BANGLADESH and population explode and annex problems hit border stability & others religious problems also surplus of problems...
DIPLOMACY AND DETAILS DEFENSE PROGRAMS FOR MYANMAR IS essentially required.
Please ,discussing on this topic ,
others alternating ideas to solve ...without wars or clashes to be stable ,peaceful Union of Myanmar...more data will be submitted..
thanks

raygun · May 15, 2014

Re: Little union state @ myanmar between 2 racing super power countries @2.5billions

What does Myanmar people want in regards to China, India, Western or even ASEAN influences? One cannot attarct economic investments without also attracting geo-political influences.

climax · May 16, 2014

Re: ASEAN military news

joshuatree said:
Pham acknowledged the Chinese declaration of territoiral sea in 1958. That Chinese declaration lists what they consider their territory - Paracel and Spratlys included. Pham's note stated all Vietnamese State bodies will be notified to respect the 12 nm boundaries of Chinese territorial waters. You can't respect other's borders if you don't know what is their territory. That's just plain old logic at work. To say it wasn't specifically spelled out in Pham's note is a straw man argument. I can easily counter argue and say Pham's note never specifically said he objected to the Paracels and Spratlys being listed in the Chinese declaration of territorial sea either.

You basically asking why the Chinese won't bring this up to support their claim does what? The note exists and it nullifies Vietnamese claims to the Paracels. The Vietnamese are not just protesting about EEZ overlaps, they are claiming Paracels when their own govt already acknowledged Chinese ownership over 50 years ago. That's why this oil rig is a non issue to them. They are drilling off their territory.

The 1975 Southwest Cay event I pointed out highlights that the Vietnamese takes reefs from others as well - full stop. Your original comment mentioned how China takes reef from others. That's my reply to that comment. Vietnam can give Southwest Cay back to the Philippines to prove me wrong.

As for violating DOC, I pointed out recent construction on Sin Cowe Island and West Reef. No "complaints" is not some pass to the DOC, Vietnamese have violated the spirit of DOC themselves many times recently. They are no victim but merely another player in this match.

Vietnamese govt has different point of view about Pham Van Dong note, Chinese has their view. So We should stop.
But if PRC don't bring it up in official way, so no need for Vietnamese govt to deny it. ( If PRC come up, we could see how Vietnamese govt defend themselves)

Most of protest by ASEAN is about 9-dash-line and Chinese actions related to it , not EEZ overlaps. Until Chinese can explain what's exactly this 9-dash-lines map, we can't talk more.

1975 event was follow another step by Republic of Vietnam at before, when they land on the Island and mark their present as Vietnamese sovereignty. And later their leave, Philippines land on Islands and occupied it, RoV want take it back, and they did, when Philippines left Island. After that, Philippines was not protest it with RoV. So I consider this event is different with China actions which keep continue and non stop.

I never say: "Vietnam is victim of this or that".
But as you said, if Vietnamese violated DOC spirit, still now, nobody complain or protest about it, include PRC.

Again, If you can read the text:

The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.

I still place my question there, for anyone want to answer, I want to know people point of view.

Just follow up the case, Chinese construction on Johnson South Reef with 500m length and 200m (may be extend more):

P/S: Philippines was complain about this.

joshuatree · May 16, 2014

Re: ASEAN military news

climax said:
Vietnamese govt has different point of view about Pham Van Dong note, Chinese has their view. So We should stop.
But if PRC don't bring it up in official way, so no need for Vietnamese govt to deny it. ( If PRC come up, we could see how Vietnamese govt defend themselves)

Every time the Vietnamese govt claims the Paracels is their territory, they are denying Pham's note. There is no POV on something as cut and dry as acknowledging one's territorial waters.

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Vietnam has launched a strong diplomatic and public relations campaign to support its position. It appears to be winning the public relations battle with much global commentary supporting its claim that the rig is illegal and painting the situation as yet another example of China’s assertiveness. However, a closer look at the situation suggests that China may be within its rights with the rig.

The rig is about 120 nautical miles east of the Vietnamese coast, and 180 nautical miles south of China’s Hainan Island. These are the two nearest mainland points from which an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf may unquestionably be measured. Equally importantly, however, the rig is about 14 nautical miles from a small island in the Paracels claimed by China and 80 nautical miles from Woody Island, a large feature with an area of about 500 hectares occupied by China.

Woody Island is indisputably an island under the regime of islands in the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and thus entitled to an EEZ and continental shelf. Despite global commentary that suggests otherwise, a negotiated maritime boundary in this area would likely place the rig within China’s EEZ even if reduced weight was given to China’s claimed insular features.

Vietnam claims that because the rig is closer to its mainland coast than to China’s and well inside 200 nautical miles of its coast, it lies within its EEZ and on its continental shelf. Superficially this argument may appear attractive but geographical proximity alone is not an unequivocal basis for claiming sovereignty or sovereign rights. There are many examples around the world of countries having sovereignty over features well inside the EEZ of another, or of EEZ boundaries being established significantly closer to one country than to another.

The question as to who has sovereignty over the Paracels is at the heart of the current situation. If Vietnam had sovereignty over the islands, there would be no dispute. However, despite much global commentary suggesting that Vietnam has a case to support its sovereignty claim, closer analysis of the history of the dispute suggests otherwise.

Vietnam’s current claim is seriously weakened by North Vietnam’s recognition of Chinese sovereignty over the Paracels in 1958 and its lack of protest between 1958 and 1975.

climax said:
Again, If you can read the text:

The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.

Yet I can highlight words in the same text that identifies the Vietnamese themselves taking action in those areas that are a violation of the spirit of the DOC so it makes the Vietnamese protest about violation of DOC rather hypocritical.

The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.

advill · May 16, 2014

China's Defense Minister during his recent visit to the US has stated categorically that it will carry on its oil drilling in waters around the Paracel Islands, as historically these waters and those in the South-China Sea (about 80%) belong to China. The US can say what it wants, BUT there is nothing the Obama Administration can do about it. China, has remarked that the US should MIOB (Mind its own business). That also goes to the others who may try to interfere. Very-Putin like approach, but China is much stronger as it is "A Rich Country with a Strong Military" at this time. However, "Strong Language & Aggressive actions" will hasten Defense Cooperation of like-minded Nations in Asia, & this I believe this may happen, with probably Japan playing an important role.

climax · May 17, 2014

Re: ASEAN military news

joshuatree said:
Every time the Vietnamese govt claims the Paracels is their territory, they are denying Pham's note. There is no POV on something as cut and dry as acknowledging one's territorial waters.

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Yet I can highlight words in the same text that identifies the Vietnamese themselves taking action in those areas that are a violation of the spirit of the DOC so it makes the Vietnamese protest about violation of DOC rather hypocritical.

That's your view.
Seem like you consider it like this: "if you don't protest it, so you recognize it"
But again, seem like everything was not work like that.

That's your explanation way about DOC text, but again, nobody, include a single party involve the issue protest Vietnamese action.
So if we follow your way, Can we said: "US, ASEAN, JAPAN, and CHINA are all rather hypocritical when they talk about DOC" !?

P/S: If you don't know, Vietnamese government did not protest about PRC expansion on Johnson South Reef, but about other actions like HY-981 case, which was violated DOC and UNCLOS.

So people can try to twist and mix Vietnamese actions to prove Vietnamese violate DOC, but it'll not work.
Nobody protest about it, include Chinese, they don't stupid and try to shoot on their foot.

climax · May 17, 2014

Some picture near HY-981 location, on SCS: Chinese ships always welcome Vietnamese side by ram on ships and prepare their water canon to feed Vietnamese ships.

Damage on Vietnamese ships:

climax · May 17, 2014

Chinese side try to threaten Vietnamese forces by send out JH-7 fighter/bomber fly at low altitude

jobjed · May 17, 2014

climax said:
Chinese side try to threaten Vietnamese forces by send out JH-7 fighter/bomber fly at low altitude

Lmao, why so touchy? Why would you so gleefully use negative diction such as 'threaten'?
That jet is on standby in case a Vietnamese captain gets overzealous and takes actions that might endanger the lives of Chinese sailors; if China really wanted to 'threaten' Vietnamese vessels, they can easily task half a dozen frigates to show what real ramming is. Either that or China can mobilise a few divisions on the Vietnamese border.

Franklin · May 17, 2014

Here is my reading of China's deployment of that oil rig near the Paracel Islands. President Obama just a few days before finished up an Asian tour (Japan, South Korea, Malaysia and the Philippines) were he reassured those countries and others that the US would standup to Chinese assertiveness in the region and on their behalf. Now China is putting that claim to the test. And since the US hasn't done anything about the current situation has helped to put some serious doubts in the minds of the regions leaders about Obama's and America's commitments and the promises made to them.

I understand that the oil rig that China deployed is a "floating oil rig" that would be removed when her mission is completed and won't be a permanent feature near the Paracels. It is said that the oil rig will leave in august. But by then China has achieved her political aims.

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