South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

joshuatree

Captain
Chinese fishing boat caught again poaching in Indonesian waters.



The last part doesn't really make sense if there is no dispute then how is there any overlapping of interest?
It's either Indonesian sovereign territory in which case Indonesia has exclusive rights or PRC disputes over claim.

They're taking about overlapping interests in the waters stemming from historical fishing grounds, not the islands. The statement makes sense, just an issue of who agrees with it.

As for poaching, Chinese don't have an exclusive on this. The Indonesian fishing enforcement drive nabs far more fellow SE Asian boats.
 

Brumby

Major
They're taking about overlapping interests in the waters stemming from historical fishing grounds, not the islands. The statement makes sense, just an issue of who agrees with it.
When the EEZ regime was established by UNCLOS it created a new fisheries regime for coastal States. The EEZ regime under Part V of UNCLOS grants coastal States exclusive rights to fisheries resources as far as 200 nm from their coastlines. Such an outcome naturally precludes States from making claims to traditional or historic fishing rights in the EEZ of other States.

The problem with China pursuing a traditional fishing ground argument within Indonesia’s EEZ is basically taking an incredulous view that what is within China’s EEZ belongs to China but what is other’s EEZ belongs to China under a traditional fishing ground argument. There is no overlapping of rights; just China’s illogical attempt at grabbing maritime rights that legally and logically does not belong to China but framed as a dispute. This is an example of why once you disregard international laws, there is simply no longer any reference other than what China says it is regardless of how illogical the argument really is.
 

eldarlmari

New Member
Any sanctions applied on China by the US would invite 'tit-for-tat' retaliation from the former, and when that happens- the economic losses would be mutual and will probably result in the drastic destabilization of the US dollar.
 

confusion

Junior Member
Registered Member
Duterte wants his railways:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

He tells Filipino businessmen, 'Can you match the offer? Because if you cannot match the offer, I will accept the goodwill of China'
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Published 8:32 PM, June 21, 2016

DAVAO CITY, Philippines – China can build the Philippines a railway from Metro Manila to Clark, Pampanga in two years.

This was the offer made recently by Chinese diplomats to Philippine President-elect Rodrigo Duterte.

“The ambassador said, ‘We will do the railway immediately and we will solve your Clark-Manila railway. We’ll use the shortest way.' I don’t know how they’ll do it. But we will complete it in two years,” Duterte said during a speech on Tuesday, June 21.

The incoming president addressed businessmen and his own Cabinet appointees in a forum in Davao City.

The Chinese envoy also assured Duterte they have successfully built railways in Africa. They could do the same in Mindanao. Duterte, set to be the first Mindanaoan president, has said he will prioritize the construction of a railway for the southern island.

He said he reminded the Chinese representatives that he also wanted a railway from Tutuban, Manila to the Bicol region, and another one from Manila to Batangas.

Duterte had previously said his
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
would be to build these train lines for the Philippines.

Trains for natural resources?
On the campaign trail, Duterte had mentioned he would accept such train systems from China in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of the disputed West Philippine Sea with the Asian economic giant.

But he said this recent offer from China did not come with talks on the maritime dispute.

“I was not ready to talk about [the dispute]. I was just asking how you can help us with the railway,” he said.

Duterte then asked the businessmen in the room: “Can you match the offer? Because if you cannot match the offer, I will accept the goodwill of China. My job is to see to it that the people are comfortable.”

The president-elect is so serious about China’s proposal that he wants incoming Transportation Secretary Arthur Tugade to go to China.

“Art Tugade has to go to China, not to talk about war, not to talk about irritations there, but to talk about peace,” he said.

But a source has told Rappler that Tugade and 6 other Cabinet members already visited China. But there were no details about the purpose of the trip.

Aside from more train lines to decongest traffic-ridden Metro Manila, Duterte is also mulling asking Congress for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to solve the Metro Manila traffic problem.

Tugade himself has said
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
are needed to fix the megacity’s transportation woes.
 
according to NavalToday (Posted on June 22, 2016) US Navy destroyer patrols South China Sea
USS Spruance, a U.S. Navy Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer, is currently patrolling the South China Sea as part of a Pacific Surface Action Group (PAC SAG) deployment to the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

“Spruance is currently operating in the South China Sea in support of maritime security and stability of all nations, especially in the Indo-Asian-Pacific,” said Cmdr. Manuel Hernandez, commanding officer of Spruance.

Spruance departed homeport in San Diego on April 19 and is joined in the Pacific by two sister ships USS Decatur (DDG 73) and USS Momsen (DDG 92), who are also part of the PAC SAG.

Spruance recently completed Oceania Maritime Security Initiative (OMSI) in the Central and Western Pacific with the U.S. Coast Guard and regional partner nations.

“In the past two weeks, we have operated in the Eastern Pacific with the U.S. Coast Guard and Pacific Island partners. Now, we are conducting operations in the South China Sea,” Hernandez said.

The U.S. Navy says that the PAC SAG initiative is designed to leverage the technological and tactical assets of the three modern destroyers, allowing for a quick response to any situation in the region.

Additionally, two U.S. aircraft carriers have met up in the Philippine Sea “to practice interoperability”. However, it is believed that the U.S. Navy is ramping up presence in the region ahead of the international arbitration over the South China Sea dispute. Official Beijing has repeatedly said that it would not accept any decision made by The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at The Hague.
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
according to USNI News (June 20, 2016 3:12 PM • Updated: June 21, 2016 10:48 AM)
U.S., Partners Should Prepare For Chinese Reaction To Impending Territorial Dispute Arbitration
An Arbitral Tribunal is expected to rule this month on a South China Sea territorial dispute between China and the Philippines, and the U.S. should be prepared to respond to any Chinese reaction, a think tank panel said today.

Andrew Shearer, senior adviser on Asia Pacific Security at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), said the United States should be in “deterrence mode” for the next six months to a year if the court rules against China. Having
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is a good step but may not go far enough, he and the panel said.

“Beijing sees a U.S. politically distracted by the coming elections” and may see an opportunity to assert its claims to all that is within the so-called Nine-Dash Line, Shearer said. That line extends about 1,000 miles from the Chinese mainland coast, and Beijing says it claims are historic well beyond the 70 years it has asserted them.

After saying the presence of the two battle groups accompanying carriers USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74) and USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) in waters close to the disputed area is important, Amy Searight, director of the CSIS Southeast Asia program, said there is “no easy solution” if China presses ahead with reclaiming Scarborough Shoal – the source of conflict that the Tribunal will adjudicate – and militarizing it. The shoal is less than 200 miles from Manila, the capital of the Philippines, and is one of its richest fishing grounds. The Chinese navy took control of the reef in 2013.

“There the stakes are very high” for China, the United States and the Asia-Pacific region, she said. The former Defense Department official said by militarizing Scarborough Shoal, Beijing will have created “a strategic triangle” of installations that “dramatically increase China’s ability to project power.”

An airbase on Scarborough Shoal would allow China to impose air defense identification zones and restrict maritime traffic on most of the South China Sea, Ernest Bower, chair of CSIS’s Southeast Asia Program’s advisory board, said at the event.

How other nations – U.S. Pacific allies like Japan and Korea, allies in Europe, and partners in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) – would react to a Chinese rejection of the court’s ruling is unclear. From the start, Beijing has said it said it wanted bilateral talks with the Philippines and rejected The Hague tribunal’s authority in the matter.

The Philippines itself has a new administration, and whether Rodrigo Duterte would move to talks with China is not known.

As for the association’s desires, “ASEAN wants balance,” as it did when Japan was the rising power in the Pacific in the 1970s, Bower said. ASEAN backed off a statement last week calling on China to respect international law when the ruling is handed down.

“No one wants to see China isolated,” Bower added. “They must be able to save face.”

Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said recently on a trip into the region that “China is building a great wall of self-isolation” with bullying tactics to get its way economically, diplomatically and militarily in the Indo-Pacific.

Shearer said he didn’t expect much from ASEAN, but “I’d be putting a lot of weight on bilateral statements” between the U.S. and individual allies and partners that say, in effect, “the rule of law has to work everywhere.”

At the same time, when the expected ruling against illegal occupation is announced, “the United States and others [should] act promptly to demonstrate” their support of the ruling and the right of freedom of navigation through international waters, he said. Among the “others,” Shearer named Australia, which has hesitated in the past to send naval vessels through the disputed territories.

Searight said the agenda for the new administration and new Senate needs to include a reconsideration of the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea to better make United States’ case for the rule of law in settling maritime disputes. The convention has never received the necessary two-thirds vote in the Senate for ratification despite efforts in several administrations’ efforts to win approval and widespread support for UNCLOS among Navy officials.
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Brumby

Major
Natuna Islands: Indonesia says no 'overlapping' South China Sea claims with China
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Indonesia's Foreign Minister has rejected China's stance that the two Asian nations have overlapping claims in the South China Sea, where there has been a run of skirmishes between Indonesian navy ships and Chinese vessels.
Indonesia is not part of a broader regional dispute over China's reclamation activities in the South China Sea and Beijing's claims on swathes of key waterways.

On Monday, China's Foreign Ministry said the two nations do not have any territorial disputes, but there were some overlapping claims on "maritime rights and interests".

But Jakarta has objected to China's inclusion of waters around the Indonesian-ruled Natuna Islands within a "nine-dash line" Beijing marks on maps to show its claim on the body of water.

"Our position is clear that claims can only be made on the basis of international law. For Indonesia, we don't have overlapping claims in any form in Indonesian waters with China," Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi told reporters.

China's Foreign Ministry said over the weekend that an Indonesian naval vessel fired on a Chinese fishing boat near the chain of islands on Friday, injuring one person.

Indonesia's navy responded that it had fired warning shots at several boats with Chinese flags it accused of fishing illegally, but there were no injuries.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
An article from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute on Natuna island and SCS at large. The author reminded readers the so-called nine-dash line was a US-ROC creation in 1947, and PRC hasn't impeded civilian freedom of navigation. He also outlined US/alliance impotence in reversing China's assertive actions, and lack of US options to keep China in UNCLOS should it decide to exit the treaty. Finally, the author trotted out the "rules based order" argument, but didn't explain why western nations could violate international laws at whim, but other nations can't. Interesting read in any case.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

In case anyone thinks that
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of its fishing rights in the waters around the Natuna Islands in the South China Sea is just the usual squabble between fishermen from neighbouring countries, it’s important to recognise the issue for what it is: another potential trigger for serious force escalation in the South China Sea. And in case anyone thinks that China is going to back down and let Indonesian patrol vessels open fire on Chinese fishing vessels and then arrest them, it’s important to recognise that capitulation is about the last thing that China would contemplate.

First, a bit of geography. The Natuna archipelago consists of 272 islands with the largest, Natuna Besar, lying approximately 600 kilometres east of Kuantan (Malaysia) and 150 kilometres north-west of the northernmost tip of Kalimantan and almost 2,000 kilometers south of Hainan. Indonesia’s maritime border extends approximately 20 kilometers north of the most northern island of the group, Pulau Laut. Indonesia’s maritime border is recognised by Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines, and there are no maritime issues in contention between them.

Second, a bit of geopolitics. China’s ‘nine dash line’, on which it stakes its South China Sea claims, was initially a Taiwanese claim, manufactured in 1947 with the assistance of the US. It includes the Paracel Islands to the east of Vietnam, Scarborough Reef to the west of the Philippines and the Spratly Islands to the west of the Philippines and north-west of Sabah. Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines have conflicting claims to parts of the Spratley Islands, while China, Taiwan and Vietnam claim the lot. The problem for Indonesia, and China for that matter, is that the ‘nine dash line’ is not continuous, and just how the sixth and seventh dashes might be linked is part of the issue. But not all of it.

Third, a bit of strategic policy. China has long sought to secure its heartland through the creation of buffers—land buffers to its north and west, and, more lately, a massive sea buffer, its South China Sea claim, to its east and south. For strategic reasons, it would be impossible for China to resile from its South China Sea claim, not least of all because it wishes to afford maximum security and protection to its Yulin submarine base in southern Hainan province. And therein lies the current ‘fisheries’ problem around the Natuna Islands. While China seems ever ready to ‘beggar its neighbours’ by cleaning out what’s already a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
the real ‘fish’ in question are SSNs, not tuna and travelly.

So the core issue is a strategic one, not a maritime or seabed resources one. And that’s where the nature of any regional or international response becomes one of strategic moment. Like its ASEAN partners, Indonesia has hitherto been reluctant to take on China, preferring either to hope that the problem goes away (which it won’t) or that a regional resolution of the problem will not be to Indonesia’s disadvantage. Hence
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
—in a situation where there isn’t much honesty and even less brokering.

The US, particularly the USN, is keen to assert its rights to freedom of navigation by sailing a warship within China’s claimed EEZ in the South China Sea. And it would be happy for Australia to go along for the ride. The question is: just how smart would it be to risk escalation of the issue by testing China’s resolve with military vessels when China has evidently placed no restriction on the freedom of navigation of commercial vessels, very few of which fly US or Australian flags?

For its part, China will claim such an assertion of what it will describe as ‘so-called’ rights to be a provocation and an escalation. The US will thumb its nose at Chinese protests, but cause no change to China’s claim. So, for the US it’ll amount to little more than a demonstration of impotence, and for China a demonstration of its intransigence. And notwithstanding the fact that
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
…in an effort to ensure freedom of navigation in the South China Sea’, the Australian government would need to take a long hard look at the strategic consequences of such an action. For we, too, would be doing little more than demonstrating our impotence.

There’s no doubt that China is bullying the ASEAN claimants. What’s more, China is getting away with it. And if the ASEAN nations are unwilling to act either individually or collectively in their own interests, what’s the advantage for Australia in taking a stand? Were Indonesia, for instance, to request RAN participation in a demonstration of freedom of navigation rights, there may be merit in such an exercise. It’s all very well for Indonesian President Joko Widodo and his senior Cabinet officers to meet on Natuna: China isn’t contesting Indonesia’s sovereignty, but rather Jakarta’s EEZ. Indonesia needs to find a more assertive way of standing up for its interests.

Strategic problems demand strategic solutions. Should the Permanent Court of Arbitration find in favour of the Philippines in its ruling on 7 July, China will certainly ignore the judgement, and may even repudiate the UNCLOS system entirely. And, as a non-signatory, there isn’t much that the US can do about that. Australia’s best strategic course is to continue to press for an international rules-based system for the management of international relations and the resolution of disputes, a system that China must both help to design and then abide by. A demonstration of impotence wouldn’t advance Australia’s regional strategic posture, and may be seen in ASEAN as just another example of Australia’s willingness to insert itself where it’s not needed.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Kudos for the Japanese government to correct false claim of a former military officer.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary of the Japanese government has refuted a claim by a former JASDF officer that a Chinese fighter had made a threatening move against a Japanese aircraft as if to carry out an attack.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

By Cp9asngf (Own work) [
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
],
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Koichi Hagiuda said the report by Kunio Orita on the incident that happened on Jun. 17 was not true.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tribunal ruling delayed to July 12.

Looks to me like a political decision so the decisions can be leaked and everyone can plan and agree a deal on what will happen, as it's not in the interests of the tribunal or China or the US for anything to flare up



Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Top