Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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i.e.

Senior Member
Hmm I think a few guys at key forums would disagree with you :p

But in all seriousness, can you list a few ways (platforms?) in which PLAAF has a higher "commitment" to EW than IAF? Is it the Y-8 GX EW planes, JH-7/A with EW pods, slightly larger variety of AEWC platforms or what? (How do you even evaluate EW proficiency? Is it through the number of dedicated EW, ELINT platforms, variety and potency of radars and ESM, datalinking?)

Because IAF "legacy" fighters have gone under quite potent modernization programs to bring up their EW, ESM to modern standards (I can't recall them immediately but IAF fans proudly list the new foreign avionics installed in old mirages and Mig-29s). Has the PLAAF made similar strides to their own legacy fighters? (I assume they have, but the transparency of the two countries are obviously different).

Keys = garbage forum. airplane porn kiddos overthere didn't even know what a cryogenic windtunnel is and how is it essential for aircraft development. may be that's why LCA can only go to a pathetic 13 deg alpha at low mach :)

The way one evaluate how serious one commits to EW is look at amount of Elint resources one is dedicated towards.
with out Elint one has no ew capability.

also jail-breaking.
"small boys" buys equipment from "big boys". they also buy from them a certain data base. for example, if you buy a ground based airdefense radar from a manufacture, the manufacture will tell you, yes, we are robust against this and that bands of jamming up to this degree. the small boys takes their word. and just use it, every time it has a glitch the manufacture's support guys are on ground to lend a helping hand. Just like buying a smart phone, you don't buy it and reverse engineer it and find out all the nuts and bolts of it, you just use it.

If one goes one step more geeky, one can find these hardcore guys who actually jail break./ heavily mod the smartphones for their own use and enjoyment.

if you go up one more step up. then you are in league of big boys .

moral and ethical issues aside,
when china buys equipment such as S-300, it first always jail breaks it. Jail breaking is done by giving the equipment to all these numerical Institute of such and such, subsystems by subsystems. once they knew it right down to the things the designer wish they have a chance to fix. that has happened on every single foreign procurement china had since 1950s..

Once you jail break, it have no secrets.

IAF is like this big customer who has all kinds of flashy money, it can go to a manufacture and wants its own special phone.
sure it can be done, it is just a mod on a existing phone with alots of unique features. but it is still built around the basic models.

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------

as for airplane EW and jammers, who knows,

but I assume the data sucked up every time those Tu-154Ms or Y-8GX goes around eastern china it is not just collecting dust.

---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

also, who else beside russia and US has elint satellites.
china does and it is launching a bigger network. same goes for spaced based radar.

Ship based? notorious. In the worst times, they askewed building modern warships but has kept up their ELINT SIGINT fleet.
ground based? you betcha.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
also jail-breaking.
"small boys" buys equipment from "big boys". they also buy from them a certain data base. for example, if you buy a ground based airdefense radar from a manufacture, the manufacture will tell you, yes, we are robust against this and that bands of jamming up to this degree. the small boys takes their word. and just use it, every time it has a glitch the manufacture's support guys are on ground to lend a helping hand. Just like buying a smart phone, you don't buy it and reverse engineer it and find out all the nuts and bolts of it, you just use it.

If one goes one step more geeky, one can find these hardcore guys who actually jail break./ heavily mod the smartphones for their own use and enjoyment.

if you go up one more step up. then you are in league of big boys .

moral and ethical issues aside,
when china buys equipment such as S-300, it first always jail breaks it. Jail breaking is done by giving the equipment to all these numerical Institute of such and such, subsystems by subsystems. once they knew it right down to the things the designer wish they have a chance to fix. that has happened on every single foreign procurement china had since 1950s..

Once you jail break, it have no secrets.
.

As a side note, jailbreaking is the reason why China has such effective cyberhacking...
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Are you serious?? I do not think they are so foolish. Fan maybe but IAF top brass?

Well there was an element of tongue-in-cheek in my original remark, but having read/heard some of the things top Indian commanders have said in the past, it really would not surprise me if that was indeed what they think.


I do not recall hearing about their estimate to knock china and pak in a two-front potential conflict.
can you provide a link?

See for yourself.

Interesting article - what do you guys think of it? :coffee:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

escobar

Brigadier
See for yourself.

the link is not working but i find another by searching on the titlte.
Is it a joke? Just silly. And it is written by a Lt-General??:confused:

there is a point in the article where it says:
India would be indirectly supported by the US and Russia
I would say it is in the realm of possibility.

BUT EVEN if they could really do that they shouldn't brag about it.
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
the link is not working but i find another by searching on the titlte.
Is it a joke? Just silly. And it is written by a Lt-General??:confused:
EVEN if they could really do that they shouldn't brag about it.

Bltizo was kind enough to quote the text of the article in his post, so if you click on the little box with double arrows next to his name in the quote box in my post, you will go straight to his post. I think he has also learnt the important lesson that actually, nothing lasts forever on the internet, and articles especially have a nasty habit of disappearing into digital heaven after a few years.

See what I mean about the kind of things top Indian commanders seem to believe in?

If they honestly believe something as ridiculous as being able to defeat China in 96 hours, is it really a stretch for them to be in denial about the J20?
 

Speeder

Junior Member
[/COLOR]also, who else beside russia and US has elint satellites.
china does and it is launching a bigger network. same goes for spaced based radar.

....

France does. It has 4 elint stats - that patially explains EW of Rafale I guess... The EU as a whole also has some ( for EF?). What's your take on EW of Rafale vs. J-10B's for example?
 

i.e.

Senior Member
France does. It has 4 elint stats - that patially explains EW of Rafale I guess... The EU as a whole also has some ( for EF?). What's your take on EW of Rafale vs. J-10B's for example?

The whole point I was trying to make is, individual capability does not mean victory.
 

Player99

Junior Member
See what I mean about the kind of things top Indian commanders seem to believe in?

If they honestly believe something as ridiculous as being able to defeat China in 96 hours, is it really a stretch for them to be in denial about the J20?

Hehe... I don't know if you guys have been to the Bharat Rashak site. That is one place where you see lots of seemingly well educated, and a lot of them overseas, Indians pontificating, judging, arguing, and worrying about just anything and everything in the whole world. There, you can often find the kind of ridiculous stuff as quoted above, which these people always gladly, excitedly cite, making predictions about other countries' fall, giving advice to other governments... It's just amazing to see how they maintain that level of self-delusion, after you have followed their blabbering for a couple of years. And these are definitely not a stupid bunch, and so, yes, it is quite possible that some Indian highups are really just like that!

P.S. They believe no Chinese in China can access their site unless it's a CPC paid agent. That's how ignorant they are about the ground reality in China! And that's how important they think China thinks of India...
 

escobar

Brigadier
Hehe... I don't know if you guys have been to the Bharat Rashak site. That is one place where you see lots of seemingly well educated, and a lot of them overseas, Indians pontificating, judging, arguing, and worrying about just anything and everything in the whole world. There, you can often find the kind of ridiculous stuff as quoted above, which these people always gladly, excitedly cite, making predictions about other countries' fall, giving advice to other governments... It's just amazing to see how they maintain that level of self-delusion, after you have followed their blabbering for a couple of years. And these are definitely not a stupid bunch, and so, yes, it is quite possible that some Indian highups are really just like that!

P.S. They believe no Chinese in China can access their site unless it's a CPC paid agent. That's how ignorant they are about the ground reality in China! And that's how important they think China thinks of India...

sometimes ther are one or two indians over there posting very interesting stuff about china.;)
 
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