Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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shen

shen

Senior Member
lol, the curves on the Honey Badger B is close to NSFW.

and I really wish they would name FC-31 the Angry Panda, rather than some weird bird.

15758888201_33a80dbf2b_o.jpg


Air Force Brat said:
Yes, you can say she looks completely "organic", and the fit and finish are very precise, no doubt the stealth shaping is very effective, while I still don't really believe this chick is slicker than the F-22, on a good day she might be, don't forget that the Raptor's L/O is very dependant on keeping the coatings and seals in shape,,,,,, for those who aren't familiar with such things, gear doors, weapons bays, refueling doors, all get a little "shopworn" in not meticoulously maintained? Looks like she's "mugging" for the camera, and hey if I looked like that, I'd be looking for somebody with a camera!

and I had to explain all this for the Honey Badger???? she wanted to know why I was smiling, LOL?

notice the horizontal stabs are deflected upward to hold the nose above the horizon in the inverted position, almost all aircraft take a little more forward stick to maintain level flight when you are "inverted", from my experience the A-10 will not maintain altitude inverted flight, not to mention that all that dihedral make it very unstable in the roll axis. I am looking at the bottom picture, I do think the F-35will be a very precise A2G platform due to the helmet mounted sight and the EOTAS. While I love the old A-10, I would not want to fly one into the kind of airspace the F-35 will have to frequent to do its best work?

How will the J-31 stack up against the F-35,,,, I still tend to think the J-31 will be more A2A, but it will no doubt have some A2G capabiity, it tends to reflect the earlier generation shaping of the F-117 and the F-22, much more angular, it will take a more fully developed pre-production prototype to really start to give some indication of real world RCS??

Did I say this airplane is growing on me, the ThunderHoggeII, even the B in the top picture is as slick as a "babys butt" in Johnson and Johnson's baby oil, yeah my Momma used to coat me in that stuff when we went to the beach, so yeah, I'm all in on this bird now! and the J-31, both very pretty airplanes, and I think Pakistan ought to buy at least 24 to get the ball rolling!
Click to expand...
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
shen said:
lol, the curves on the Honey Badger B is close to NSFW.

and I really wish they would name FC-31 the Angry Panda, rather than some weird bird.

15758888201_33a80dbf2b_o.jpg
Click to expand...

Actually Shen the ThunderHoggeII B is very sensous, the Honey Badger is my wifey, and if she sees your commnent on my post, we are both walking DEAD men, ya don't mess wit the Honey Badger, she is like one of them "cute little white tigers", then when you reach out to pet her, you'll prolly be missing at least a few fingers, prolly a whole hand, well you get my point, no she aint safe for work, in fact her middle name is DANGEROUSLY,,, now if the F-35 is half as Dangerous as the little Honey Badger, and half or even a third as good looking, we will be in good shape, same goes for the lovely little J-31.

Oh and somebody copyright the ThunderHogge II name, that there is g-e-n-u-i-n-e AFB, soon as somebody starts flying these chick for real fun, that there will be its "official" name,,,,, trust me on this???? and I absolutely love the Angry Panda, that ther is some real thankin on your part, fact I'm gonna send you a friend request,,, now you remind me if I forget----"Angry Panda" oh yeah, thats clikin right here buddy!:p:p
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
I think you guys are all looking too much into it. Chances are the missiles aren't even scaled correctly with the model.
 
shen

shen

Senior Member
oops, my apology to AFB and Honey Badger, and ThunderHoggeII with the "baby butt".

Air Force Brat said:
Actually Shen the ThunderHoggeII B is very sensous, the Honey Badger is my wifey, and if she sees your commnent on my post, we are both walking DEAD men, ya don't mess wit the Honey Badger, she is like one of them "cute little white tigers", then when you reach out to pet her, you'll prolly be missing at least a few fingers, prolly a whole hand, well you get my point, no she aint safe for work, in fact her middle name is DANGEROUSLY,,, now if the F-35 is half as Dangerous as the little Honey Badger, and half or even a third as good looking, we will be in good shape, same goes for the lovely little J-31.

Oh and somebody copyright the ThunderHogge II name, that there is g-e-n-u-i-n-e AFB, soon as somebody starts flying these chick for real fun, that there will be its "official" name,,,,, trust me on this???? and I absolutely love the Angry Panda, that ther is some real thankin on your part, fact I'm gonna send you a friend request,,, now you remind me if I forget----"Angry Panda" oh yeah, thats clikin right here buddy!:p:p
Click to expand...
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
shen said:
oops, my apology to AFB and Honey Badger, and ThunderHoggeII with the "baby butt".
Click to expand...

Angry Panda, now I'm thinkin of a Panda in "uniforum" with a hammer in one hand, and a sickle slung over his shoulder, kinda like the Grim Reaper, smokin a ''ceegar" and having a cantine with XXX on it for white lightning, and a flight helmet with shield? Am I anywhere close in the neighborhood on this Shen? Maybe one of our Artists will help us out?
 
L

LesAdieux

Junior Member
Just how good is China's new 'stealth' fighter?

Editor's note: Reuben F. Johnson is a correspondent for IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, a publication devoted to defense and security intelligence and analysis. The views expressed are his own.

Zhuhai, Guangdong Province (CNN) -- Zhuhai's Air Show has always been a venue for surprises, usually first-time showings of advanced Chinese military hardware.

China's pathologically secretive defense industry normally shows nothing official of its weapons programs to anyone, which makes the biennial Zhuhai expo the only chance to see what its weapons makers have been up to.

Much has been written in the past few years about China's defense sector developing increasingly more capable weapons systems that approach the capability of their U.S. and European analogues.

Some Chinese weapons, such as a full range of anti-ship and air-to-surface missiles, seem to show that its military -- the People's Liberation Army (PLA) -- is equipped to challenge U.S. Navy carrier battle groups and potentially deny the U.S. the ability to operate in certain areas of the Pacific. But questions remain about how battle-ready the PLA is and whether it can function in a modern, network-centric warfare environment.

Battlefield autonomy
Today's battlefield operates on the premise that autonomy should be pushed down to the lowest level -- even down to the man in the field -- because time is of the essence. Getting inside of the enemy's "decision loop" is the key to victory. But, giving individual units the ability to make their own tactical decisions without their orders being delivered from several layers up the chain of command is an anathema to the "control uber alles" mentality of the Chinese leadership.

In terms of new weapons, the number one attraction at Zhuhai this year was the new Shenyang FC-31 fighter. It has generated a good deal of excitement as it's the first time a new Chinese military aircraft has been unveiled while still in the early stages of development -- we usually have to wait until after they start serving in the PLA's air force.
The FC-31 is designed to look like a stealth fighter aircraft in the class of the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is also the second, but smaller, stealth-type design to be developed by China. The FC-31's "Big Brother," the Chengdu J-20, first flew in January 2011 but has been shrouded in secrecy ever since.

The FC-31 "looks" stealthy and its shape mimics that of the F-35 in some respects. But it is impossible to tell just how successful the Shenyang design team has been in developing an aircraft with a low radar cross section without knowing the materials used, the placement of the engines inside the aircraft, and how well the heat signature from the engines has been suppressed by the design of the exhaust nozzle section.

Flawed design?
Like other PLAAF fighter aircraft, the FC-31 is powered by Russian-made jet engines, in this case two Klimov RD-93 models, which are a specialized variant of the same engine that powers the famous Mikoyan "MiG-29." There have been rumors that a team of renegade designers from the Mikoyan bureau in Moscow assisted Shenyang in the development of the aircraft, but a senior MiG official stated "no, as far as I know they [the Chinese] completed this design themselves, and they seem to have done a good job on their own."

The MiG official may be correct. An aircraft of this type designed with Russian assistance would probably perform better.
The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai is a "clean" jet in that it is not armed, which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.
Timing a coincidence?
So, why has the PLAAF chosen to exhibit an aircraft that is either overweight, underpowered or both?
It could be an oblique signal to Washington timed to coincide with President Barack Obama's visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. The underlying message: "China is stronger than you think."

This would not be the first such example of China trying to use its defense industry to flex its muscles. In January 2011, when the J-20 first flew, then-U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing for an official visit. His read was that the timing of the two events was in no way coincidental.
Unfortunately for the PLA, the gesture falls flat.

Many would have been more impressed by the FC-31 in photos posted on Chinese websites than after seeing it actually fly at the air show.
Looks can be deceiving, as they say.
 
X

xiabonan

Junior Member
Re: Just how good is China's new 'stealth' fighter?

LesAdieux said:
Editor's note: Reuben F. Johnson is a correspondent for IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, a publication devoted to defense and security intelligence and analysis. The views expressed are his own.

Zhuhai, Guangdong Province (CNN) -- Zhuhai's Air Show has always been a venue for surprises, usually first-time showings of advanced Chinese military hardware.

China's pathologically secretive defense industry normally shows nothing official of its weapons programs to anyone, which makes the biennial Zhuhai expo the only chance to see what its weapons makers have been up to.

Much has been written in the past few years about China's defense sector developing increasingly more capable weapons systems that approach the capability of their U.S. and European analogues.

Some Chinese weapons, such as a full range of anti-ship and air-to-surface missiles, seem to show that its military -- the People's Liberation Army (PLA) -- is equipped to challenge U.S. Navy carrier battle groups and potentially deny the U.S. the ability to operate in certain areas of the Pacific. But questions remain about how battle-ready the PLA is and whether it can function in a modern, network-centric warfare environment.

Battlefield autonomy
Today's battlefield operates on the premise that autonomy should be pushed down to the lowest level -- even down to the man in the field -- because time is of the essence. Getting inside of the enemy's "decision loop" is the key to victory. But, giving individual units the ability to make their own tactical decisions without their orders being delivered from several layers up the chain of command is an anathema to the "control uber alles" mentality of the Chinese leadership.

In terms of new weapons, the number one attraction at Zhuhai this year was the new Shenyang FC-31 fighter. It has generated a good deal of excitement as it's the first time a new Chinese military aircraft has been unveiled while still in the early stages of development -- we usually have to wait until after they start serving in the PLA's air force.
The FC-31 is designed to look like a stealth fighter aircraft in the class of the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is also the second, but smaller, stealth-type design to be developed by China. The FC-31's "Big Brother," the Chengdu J-20, first flew in January 2011 but has been shrouded in secrecy ever since.

The FC-31 "looks" stealthy and its shape mimics that of the F-35 in some respects. But it is impossible to tell just how successful the Shenyang design team has been in developing an aircraft with a low radar cross section without knowing the materials used, the placement of the engines inside the aircraft, and how well the heat signature from the engines has been suppressed by the design of the exhaust nozzle section.

Flawed design?
Like other PLAAF fighter aircraft, the FC-31 is powered by Russian-made jet engines, in this case two Klimov RD-93 models, which are a specialized variant of the same engine that powers the famous Mikoyan "MiG-29." There have been rumors that a team of renegade designers from the Mikoyan bureau in Moscow assisted Shenyang in the development of the aircraft, but a senior MiG official stated "no, as far as I know they [the Chinese] completed this design themselves, and they seem to have done a good job on their own."

The MiG official may be correct. An aircraft of this type designed with Russian assistance would probably perform better.
The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai is a "clean" jet in that it is not armed, which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.
Timing a coincidence?
So, why has the PLAAF chosen to exhibit an aircraft that is either overweight, underpowered or both?
It could be an oblique signal to Washington timed to coincide with President Barack Obama's visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. The underlying message: "China is stronger than you think."

This would not be the first such example of China trying to use its defense industry to flex its muscles. In January 2011, when the J-20 first flew, then-U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing for an official visit. His read was that the timing of the two events was in no way coincidental.
Unfortunately for the PLA, the gesture falls flat.

Many would have been more impressed by the FC-31 in photos posted on Chinese websites than after seeing it actually fly at the air show.
Looks can be deceiving, as they say.
Click to expand...

I like how this person can just judge an aircraft which is still at its earliest stage of development by eyeballing and rumours and pre-determined assumptions.

Not saying that he's wrong--he could well be right.

But that's not my point either.
 
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