Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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Blitzo

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Wow that is pretty nice... I would be pretty content with an aircraft like so, especially if the weapon bays were designed like that. Looks big enough to hold a small LACM, with folding wings.
 
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schrage musik

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posted over at Pakistan Defence by s10:

In no particular order, by huzhigeng:

没有所有的项目都给南边吧？四代南边有。北边也给了。海四肯定要竞争，虽然说601在研制歼15上有更多的 经验。但是611从来都是争强好胜。611从来都是吃着碗里。看着锅里。。同时还想着外卖。

CAC didn't get all the projects. SAC also got its own 4th gen. Navy's 4th gen will be a competition between the two. Eventhough SAC has more experience with J-15, CAC will be looking to take their pie.

两所都有方案。还没有正式PK。。。只能说北边更有优势。北四方案改一下基本就能上舰。而南四的话。呵呵。 。气动布局要大改。。还有。海军对以后的海四要求是隐身条件下的超音速巡航。超音速机动性。另说一句。海四 肯定是重型。

Both design institutes have their proposals (for navy's 4th gen), but competition hasn't start yet. SAC's convention design has more advantage in this area, since it requires little modification. CAC's design require significan altercation. Navy has requirement for stealth and supercruise, as well as supersonic manoevurability. One more thing, navy's 4th gen will be a heavy fighter.

文章还是不错的，，相当客观。歼20载弹量确实极为优秀。歼20也并不大。和T50，F22都是一个量级的 。比苏27要小。歼20的电子设备招标也基本结束。。性能还不错。如果六七年后服役的话，电子设备基本上相 当于现在的F35的电子水平，比现在的F22 要好。还有一点。歼20的机头相控阵雷达是四代机之中最大的。。

Decent and objective article. J-20's paylod is quite good compared to its size. It's roughly about the size of T-50 and F-22, smaller than Su-27. Competition for avionics is basically done. If it enters service in about 6 or 7 years, its avionics will be roughly on par with F-35 today. And the dimension of its radar will be the largest among all 4th gen (including F-22, F-35 and T-50).

北四航电比南四要低一个档次，有点差距。。。南四的航电是全程竞标，设备都是国内顶尖中的顶尖。载弹量怎么 说呢。北四通用性要好一些。。

SAC's avionics will be slightly inferior to CAC's. CAC's avionics were chosen from a competitive process. In terms of payload, SAC's design has more flexibility.

07年招标是南边鸭式边条翼和北边的三翼面的招标。和现在的北四常规布局是不同的项目

2007's competition was between canard design of CAC and tri-wing design of SAC. It is different from current conventional layout project ongoing at SAC at the moment.

我说的招标结束是分系统产品已经测试结束，就等上2003和2004了，一起集成测试。

Competition for J-20's sub-systems is already over. We're waiting to intergrate and test them on 03 and 04 prototypes.

全状态的南四和F22相比。各有所长。电子设备比现在的F22要好一些。4S当中。有两项要更突出。当然隐 身性能和F22还是有点差距的。

When completed, we estimate J-20 will have better avionics than current F-22. Among the 4S requirement, two will likely exceed it. Of course, F-22 will still be better in terms of stealth.

歼20的设计思路就是满足隐身的条件下，突出超机动性和超音速巡航性能。这点和老宋的论文一致 。

J-20's design philosophy is to meet stealth requirement, while emphasizing on manovurability and supercruise, similar to Mr. Song's (designer of J-10) article.

既使中国的发动机和美帝水平一样。还是会用YA子的。。

Even if our turbofan engines are on the same level as Americans, we're still likely to use canards in our design.

WS15本来就是全向矢量。毛子的也是。只有美帝的F22才是二元矢量。二元和三元矢量各有优缺点。。。就 看哪个更适合自己的国情。所以不要指望什么歼20的屁股装上二元矢量的了。

WS-15 engine will be equipped with 3D TVC. Russians will do the same thing with their engines. Only Americans will use 2D TVC. Each has its pros and cons, depending on what's more suitable for the user, so don't expect F-22 style nozzle on J-20.

南四和北四后面都会量产服役的。配合使用。四代是一个体系。。都是其中的节点而以。。

CAC and SAC's projects will both be produced, and used in conjunction. All 4th gen are part of our future air combat network.

北四原计划确实是不装矢量的国产发动机。不过现在也有装矢量发动机的计划。

Originally, SAC did not plan to install TVC on their project, but now the plan has changed.

你们不要指望歼20装反舰导弹，不可能的事，也没必要。歼20的做战目标就是纯空优，20的标配就是6+2 。。空优机就是空优机。

Don't expect J-20 to carry anti-ship missiles. It's both impossible and unneccessary. J-20's sole focus is air superiority, carrying 6 medium range and 2 short range air-to-air missiles.
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am double posting this in the J-20 thread as well, since it talks of both the Naval 5th gen fighter and the J-20.

So if Huzhigeng is to be believed, the shenyang naval stealth fighter (J-18??) is just a proposal at the time. J-20 is Air-superiority only. And J-19 (the stealth striker) will serve alongwith J-20. No mention of JH-7B, though.

Also, huzhigeng has said earlier that J-10B isn't going to be the last of the J-10 variants. Therefore, it is probable that both the J-10 and the J-11 designs will continue to evolve with newer versions. So we have the J-11 evolving similar to how the F-15 did, with the J-16 introducing an avionics upgrade to turn it into a multirole fighter and the J-17 introducing an airframe and avionics upgrade to turn it into a reduced rcs aircraft:

J-11B --> J-16 --> J-17
F-15C --> F-15E --> F-15 SE

There might be further variants of the J-10, but eventually CAC will want to replace it with an entirely new design. It might also be possible that XAC's JH-7B and SAC's J-19 are competing designs for the PLAAF's Su-30/JH-7A replacement, same way as CAC and SAC had competing designs for the J-20 and the J-15 projects.
 
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Deino

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Centrist said:
Well that is interesting. Everything he said fits fairly well with the other rumors flouting around.

But, J-19 is not a striker, according to Huitong. Nor does the article state or imply that J-19 is a striker, so I am not sure where you got that. Now what is odd, why do they need SAC's 4th gen design aloneside the J-20? What advantage could that possibly have?
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Otherwise it is the same what was alao said here; the J-19 is a heavy striker based on the rejected XXJ-proposal.

Otherwise it would make perfectly sense - and even would confirm what I suggested in regard to the naval request for proposal (not yet defined nor decided !) - to have a slightly less advanced / less expensive design that is more multi-role capable along the J-20 acting as a "siver bullet".

Ohhhh I can't wait to see that design .... :p

Deino
 
tphuang

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Centrist said:
Well that is interesting. Everything he said fits fairly well with the other rumors flouting around.

But, J-19 is not a striker, according to Huitong. Nor does the article state or imply that J-19 is a striker, so I am not sure where you got that. Now what is odd, why do they need SAC's 4th gen design aloneside the J-20? What advantage could that possibly have?
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you guys do really that huzhigeng is where a good amount of these rumours came from, right?

Okay, let's look at the big picture again and see if this makes more sense.

JF-17B-(Upgraded electronics, WS-13 engine, stealthy front end). Makes sense, cheaper gen-4.5 fighter suitable for export. That will be a badass little plane for countries like Pakistan.

J-10B-Makes sense, though indications are that it wont enter service in large numbers and is partially a testbed for J-20 tech. Maybe it will be quickly followed by full production variant. I don't know. Personally, I am not sure how it can be improved very much beyond that.

J-2X-Single engine 5-gen fighter. Probably in very very early development and unlikely to fly until >2020. Maybe it is a competition project still?

J-16-SAC J-11BS with added ground attack capabilities. I am not sure why this plane is needed given the number of strikers supposedly in development.

J-17-SAC's Silent Flanker striker design, similar to, but stealthier than the J-16.

JH-7B or JH-XX. XAC striker which we have seen models of. There seems to be a debate as to whether or not the JH-XX is just an improved JH-7A or a substantially new design.

It makes zero sense to improve the JH-7A in my opinion when the J-17 or even J-16 would be far superior. There is no way 3 strikers will enter service. It almost looks like a game of cat and mouse between XAC and SAC.

XAC proposes improved JH-7A called JH-7B.
SAC one ups them, pushes superior J-16
XAC proposes completely new design (the one in the model), though still often called the JH-7B
SAC improves the J-16 and makes it more stealthy, now called the J-17.

The question is, which one was finally chosen? Or were both somehow chosen? (I hope not for their sake)

This leads us to the J-18 and J-19, which i do believe to be substantially the same aircraft. It seems all but certain that after losing to the J-20, SAC retooled their tri-plane design and created an aircraft that was more flexible and could be modified for different roles. In this case, the J-19 is an air superiority fighter and the J-18 is a proposed navalized version.

The question is, why two air-superiority fighters? If SAC's clout large enough in government that they convinced the PLAAF to spend money on an inferior plane?
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I've been reading this stuff as much as anyone else. There is just too much speculations for my liking. Let's just wait and see what happens.
 
Blitzo

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Centrist said:
This leads us to the J-18 and J-19, which i do believe to be substantially the same aircraft. It seems all but certain that after losing to the J-20, SAC retooled their tri-plane design and created an aircraft that was more flexible and could be modified for different roles. In this case, the J-19 is an air superiority fighter and the J-18 is a proposed navalized version.

The question is, why two air-superiority fighters? Is SAC's clout large enough in government that they convinced the PLAAF to spend money on an inferior plane?
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No J-19 seems to be more of a strike fighter capable of A2A than optimized for air superiority. That being said, if it's equipped with two WS-15s with TVC I think it can outfly most planes outside the big three.

If J-19 is a lower cost strike fighter/multirole plane then it makes far more sense that it is developed and even fielded alongside J-20, no?
 
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