Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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NikeX

Banned Idiot
Nobody say its easy.. But Chief of Airforce says stealth gap are closing between USAF and PLAAF. MOre or less China stealth has near reach US level. I never heard he says anything about Russia PAFKA stealth level.

I would take the statement of the Chief of Airforce with a very large grain of salt. As I posted in the previous discussion to look at the J-20 and other Chinese aircraft and guess that they are on par with United States designs is the height of foolishness.

Lets revisit this discussion when the J-20 is fitted with an engine that allows it to super-cruise.
 

Engineer

Major
It is interesting to note how China haters (ie. journalists) are so pathetic that they have to resort to pointing at something they can't see to claim a stealth fighter isn't a stealth fighter. When J-20 came out, those people say it is not stealthy because of its shapes. Now that Shenyang has a miniature F-22, those same people claim shape is not as important as coating.
 

paintgun

Senior Member
What you are trying to tell me is that China is going to leap over nearly 30 years of hard work by Lockeed Skunkworks, Northrup and others and create in ten short years a state of the art stealth aircraft that is on the same level as these designs being flown today.

Yes, J-20 happened, what your opinion and all China nay-sayers matters not

Get a cold towel and wipe your face because you are dreaming friend. Wake up!

Its you who don't want to wake up from the dream that US > everything else
That post really showed what you think and have wanted to say all this time, it's like 1 year late to post it

Mods are gonna be here soon, enjoy what you can say before the thread is cleaned
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
Without building and flying their designs how can the Chinese even understand what mistakes others have made? Its called experience and there is no short cut around it.



What are you basing your assessment on? What non-US stealth aircraft are you comparing this opinion of your against? Right now the United States is it and the fact that the US is having some difficulty pulling all these elements together just demonstrates how difficult it is to assemble a competent stealthy aircraft.

And you should remember that F-22 and F-35 are SECOND generation stealth aircraft with F-117 and B-2 being the first generation.



Oh really? China has never built an aircraft as complex as even a first generation stealth aircraft. And now you look at an aircraft like the J-20 and the latest offering from China and tell me that they will not make the same mistakes for sure! Sadly you are just judging these Chinese aircraft only from their shapes and those external views are a poor indicator as to the stealthiness of those Chinese aircraft.

You already know that these Chinese aircraft are flying without engines capable of supercruise due to Chinese engine manufactures have trouble mastering the technologies needed for advanced engines. And when capable engines will be available is anybodies guess

You also have no idea of what coatings the Chinese can apply to these aircraft. But without the right coatings stealth is compromised. Stealth is more than shapes.

What you are trying to tell me is that China is going to leap over nearly 30 years of hard work by Lockeed Skunkworks, Northrup and others and create in ten short years a state of the art stealth aircraft that is on the same level as these designs being flown today. And you are going to tell me that Chinese workers assembling designs in China for western companies are going to provide the labor?

Get a cold towel and wipe your face because you are dreaming friend. Wake up!

Oh NikeX, every time I read you post I get this fuzzy and warm feeling inside. You actually make this forum interesting, you represents just about every egocentric American out there.

But yes, you are right, your logic is flawless, clearly China must build their first generation stealth jet such as F-117 in order to build their second gen stealth jet. I mean there are nations that never build any air craft, so for them to start, they must start with the hot air boons, with any luck, they may progress to the Wright Brothers's planes, then and only then they can gain valuable experience onto the powerful bi-planes, after that depends on their experience, they may able to research propeller engine planes. And if everything goes well, in about 60 more years they may produce their first stealth jet fighter.

Clearly China is doing something wrong here, they are skipping their F-117 directly onto their F-22, so of course they will fail, am i rite my brother? hi-5!!!!
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
@paintgun: J-20 is a nice attempt at the creation of a fifth generation aircraft but is deficient in several key areas, starting with being underpowered due to lagging engine technology by Chinese aerospace. You know this so just accept the obvious and continue the discussion
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
@jackliu Thank you for giving me so much credit for pointing out the obvious. But in discussing the building of a state-of-art 5th generation fighter capable of holding its own on the world's aerial battlefields you must admit that there is no substitute for the years of experience that goes into building fighter aircraft.

Look at the Russians who have built world class aircraft (Su-27 and MiG-29) and the problems they are encountering now trying to build a 5th generation fighter for their airforce.

They are working very hard to get things right and their experiences go for anyone trying to create and integrate all the pieces needed for these very complex machines of the air.

The key word is integration of complex systems. There are no short cuts.
 

Yorkie

New Member
@paintgun: J-20 is a nice attempt at the creation of a fifth generation aircraft but is deficient in several key areas, starting with being underpowered due to lagging engine technology by Chinese aerospace. You know this so just accept the obvious and continue the discussion

No doubt everyone here knows that engines on these birds are their short comings, but at the same time these installed ones are the interim engines. Parallel development should be no foreign concept to anyone from the U.S., for sure. If you lay out the design specs for an F22 and say, well, this other plane doesn't quite meet this and that, then no doubt. But whoever says they have to match them in every aspect to begin with? You wouldn't judge two cars in the same category by dictating the judging criteria to a particular one, unless you want to high light one's strength and play to that favor.

My point is quite simple: every design has its strengths and weaknesses. What's better depends on one's perspective and the intended applications. The F35 integration sounded like a great idea on paper, but the complexity is kicking LM in the rear. You were right that J31 would face a bigger hurdle if they tried to match that because they were years behind. But then who said they needed to match that?
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
On paper, which was the better tank - The German Tiger, American Sherman or Russian T34? Who won in the end again?

The current engines are underpowered because they are interim engines, if someone is picking on that, then they must be scraping the bottom of the barrel for slights against the J20 now that all the previous ridiculous claims and doubts about it being real, able to fly, have any weapons bays, being a one-off tech demonstrator etc have all been proven to nonsense.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
On paper, which was the better tank - The German Tiger, American Sherman or Russian T34? Who won in the end again?



Mind clarifying what you're trying to say here?

The Sherman won through sheer weight of numbers, and I read that the T-34 was actually a pretty advanced design, that also happened to have sheer weight of numbers.

So are you trying to say that the J-31 is actually very advanced, that it's just going to outnumber the F-22/F-35 on the battlefield to win, both, or neither?
 
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