Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang said:

listed to yourself. China has the cars available and Iran just wants to wait for western products or Shan-zhai Chinese products. That's how it's always been. Iran gets Chinese design helps and then produce it for themselves.
How much economic benefits is in this relationship?

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Chinese car companies are taking over exactly the role western companies used to have in Iran. Peugeot and GM used to licence their cars to Iranian local manufacturers, today they are also doing exactly the same with Chinese companies like Brilliance. JVs are profitable. In addition to that there are of course some foreign branded cars including Chinese ones like Chery. I don't have sales numbers, do you?

Chinese companies directly replacing western companies isn't good enough for you? You want them to fire all their workers, shut down their industry and only import directly from China?

tphuang said:

nah, Europe gave them the complete finger. China can just have regular commerce with Iran and that's it.
There is no real pro-western factions in GCC countries or Russia or Pakistan to the degree you see in Iran.
Why does China need to demonstrate anything to Iran?
I don't get why you are so into helping Iran? Decades of sanctions have not killed off the pro-western faction of Iran. Decades of normal commerce has not allowed Chinese companies to dominate Iran's machinery import sector (like what we've seen in Russia in less than 1 year). And the 25 year agreement, which was made upon the assumption of JCPOA, got attacked by the liberal faction of Iran despite the fact that nobody else is offering anything to Iran.
It's amazing. Iran has not friend anywhere. China tries to be its friend and just get attacked inside Iran. With that kind of lack of appreciation, what's the point?
Just have regular commercial relationship with Iran that doesn't get yourself sanctioned

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I'm reacting to your suggestion that China should crush Iran and charm Saudi Arabia. Yes, China should have regular commercial and military relations with Iran, of course given the distance and lack of direct border between China and Iran the relation would always be different from Pakistan or Russia, with who China shares a border and an enemy. But damaging Iran just to curry favour with Saudi Arabia? China doesn't need to do that.

There's a bigger point. Should China act like the Soviet Union and America did during the cold war and support any enemy of the other superpower? If China supports the most sanctioned countries like North Korea, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela and Syria and today Russia, then China can eliminate sanctions as a foreign policy tool for the west. The risk is to get sanctioned itself, but China is getting sanctioned anyway.

And if you crush countries that want to be your ally, all other countries are going to be very wary of joining China's side. If China throws Iran in the bin, don't you think there'll be some Saudis saying that they don't want to be the next country China trades away in exchange for an even better ally?


The US used to have an image of always supporting its allies, even if they were dictatorships. That's why so many countries felt safe to become American allies. It's more than just American propaganda. Nobody would have thought South Korea could ever become an asset to the US, but today they are a high tech country which obviously benefits the US in some way.

taxiya said:

China sold some good stuff in the early 1990s such as the anti-ship missiles, but stopped under US pressure. China did not sell anything since that time, but neither to North Korea who has no western worshippers. Russia halted delivery of S-300 under US pressure only to deliver them when their relation with the west turned sore. I am trying to say that Iran not getting weapons from China and Russia is probably more to do with the two avoiding confrontation with US, not Iran not wanting for supposed "looking down on China" mentality.

To be fair, Pakistan chose to proceed JF-17 only because of risk of F-16 blockade, in that sense Pakistan is also "looking down on China". People always look for something "better", we shouldn't take grudge of it, otherwise China would have no friend.

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You can look at it that way, but Pakistan bought Chinese gears even back when all they had for sale was J-6s. It's hard to think of a military that's more aligned with PLA than Pakistan right now. I mean Pakistan has been a great ally for China in every way.

Bangladesh is close, but they don't have a big military.

NK is its own special case. China haven't donated anything to them due to SK. But that will change. NK will get refurbished J-10s.

I'd be curious what happens here.
Stuff like this, I think offering this to Iran works. It's just money that Iran will have the ability to pay back with energy. As long as they are buying Chinese machinery in exchange for the investment and then selling energy to China in RMB.

I"m not sure when and why these comments were made
But with Russia weakening, China wants to make sure that Central Asia falls under its influence and use its technology and industries.

I think investing 40B dollars in Iran's oil and infrastructure is a good deal benefiting both countries and Asia on the whole.
hopefully, everyone involved and in between the 2 powers will get to eat a piece of the pie too.
40B is not big money to China, all it needs to do is to sell some more US treasury bonds (paper money) to finance the Iran projects and get real tangible returns for its investments.
Good for China to continue selling US bonds to finance worthwhile projects in the BRI and SCO partners.

IMO, China is weary of full scale corporation with Iran is due to it's lack of long term stability. I used to think Arabs are jokes, but now China is willing to corporate with them is because Xi is confident of their stability.

For Full scale alignment between China and Iran there is a basic requirement. China doesn't even require Iran to be pro-China; Iran can be democratic & not pro-west, or conservative & not pro-west, as long as Iran is stable and not pro-west it is good enough. However it is uncertain where Iran will go right now, there seems to be great rift within Iran. It is prudent for China to not go all-in on Iran, lets wait and see.

enroger said:

IMO, China is weary of full scale corporation with Iran is due to it's lack of long term stability. I used to think Arabs are jokes, but now China is willing to corporate with them is because Xi is confident of their stability.

For Full scale alignment between China and Iran there is a basic requirement. China doesn't even require Iran to be pro-China; Iran can be democratic & not pro-west, or conservative & not pro-west, as long as Iran is stable and not pro-west it is good enough. However it is uncertain where Iran will go right now, there seems to be great rift within Iran. It is prudent for China to not go all-in on Iran, lets wait and see.

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Saudi Arabia managed to withstand Arab Spring and afterwards MBS also cleaned house. That, and SA's consistent strategic signalling either by words or by actions, prove without a doubt that Saudi Arabia means real business with China

Contrast that with Iran and you the difference. Eventually this also makes China treat these two countries differently.

Overbom said:

Saudi Arabia managed to withstand Arab Spring and afterwards MBS also cleaned house. That, and SA's consistent strategic signalling either by words or by actions, prove without a doubt that Saudi Arabia means real business with China

Contrast that with Iran and you the difference. Eventually this also makes China treat these two countries differently.

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Exactly, consistence is the most important thing

Overbom said:

Saudi Arabia managed to withstand Arab Spring and afterwards MBS also cleaned house. That, and SA's consistent strategic signalling either by words or by actions, prove without a doubt that Saudi Arabia means real business with China

Contrast that with Iran and you the difference. Eventually this also makes China treat these two countries differently.

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Lol, S.A. has extensive security ties with United States and they are deepening their relationship with Western businesses. I've read over the last few pages and I cannot understand how people just gloss over these basic realities.

Iran is diametrically opposed to the West. Saudi Arabia is not. I think I know who is a more reliable partner going into the future.

China, five Central Asian nations hold forum to boost industry, investment cooperation

Platform to further boost industry, investment collaboration

By and Tao Mingyang Published: Feb 16, 2023 08:25 PM



China + Central Asia (C+C5) industry and investment cooperation forum Photo: VCG

China and five Central Asian countries on Thursday kicked off a first-ever forum on industry and investment cooperation in Qingdao, East China's Shandong Province, eyeing greater collaboration in digital economy, energy and agriculture.

Chinese President Xi Jinping sent a congratulatory letter to the China + Central Asia (C+C5) industry and investment cooperation forum, lauding the strategic partnerships between China and the five countries of Central Asia, which have established a new path with a friendly neighborhood and win-win cooperation and a new paradigm for international relations, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

Xi said that China is willing to share with the Central Asian countries its super-large market, complete industrial system and advanced technologies, deepen pragmatic cooperation, achieve mutual benefit and win-win results, work together to promote the high-quality development of the regional economy, and build a closer community with a shared future, according to Xinhua.

He Lifeng, head of the National Development and Reform Commission, which organized the forum along with the provincial government of Shandong, said at the forum via video link that President Xi's congratulatory letter reflects the great importance attached to the forum. He called for fully using the platform to achieve fruitful results in industry and investment cooperation between China and Central Asian countries.

President Xi first announced the launch of the forum in a speech at the virtual summit to commemorate the 30th anniversary of diplomatic relations between China and Central Asian countries on January 25, 2022.

The two-day forum was attended by 300 representatives from embassies of the five Central Asian countries, namely Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, and Chinese and foreign businesses, and vice prime ministers of the five Central Asian countries addressed the forum via video link.

The forum will include separate sessions focusing on industrial internet, energy cooperation and global agricultural cooperation, the local Qingdao Daily reported. Also, during the forum, the Qingdao international energy trading center and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) agricultural industry development alliance will be launched, according to the report.

The forum will provide another crucial platform for cooperation between China and Central Asia in a wide range of areas, Chinese businesses and analysts noted.

"From a practical perspective, the forum will promote cooperation between China and the five Central Asian countries in energy, food, climate change and other areas under the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI)," Zhu Yongbiao, executive director of the Research Center for the Belt and Road at Lanzhou University, told the Global Times on Thursday.

In terms of energy cooperation, all the Central Asian countries have their own advantages, Zhu said, adding that Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan are rich in fossil fuel, while Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan have abundant hydropower resources.

"So, energy cooperation involves cooperation of the whole industry chain, involving new energy, fossil energy, climate governance and so on," he said.

Energy cooperation between China and the Central Asian countries has been expanding. For example, there are several major projects for energy trade, including the China-Central Asia natural gas pipeline and the China-Kazakhstan crude oil pipeline. The countries are also eyeing faster construction of Line D of the China-Central Asia Gas Pipeline.

Agriculture has also become a major area for cooperation between China and Central Asian countries.

"In the field of agriculture, the climate in our country's northwestern regions, including Gansu and Xinjiang, is relatively close to that of the five Central Asian countries. Some agricultural technologies, seed provenance, seed production and other technologies have strong cooperation potential," Zhu said.

Another area of growing cooperation between China and Central Asian countries is transport connectivity. Given its location, Central Asia is a key link of the BRI and the China-Europe Railway Express.

Growing trade cooperation between China and the Central Asian countries will further boost regional connectivity, according to Ma Lei, head of the clearance department of Alashankou Essent International Freight Forwarding Co in Alashankou City in Xinjiang.

"Under the support of such cooperation forums and national policies, China's trade cooperation with Central Asian countries will rebound," Ma told the Global Times on Thursday, adding that cross-border transport has seen significant improvement after the adjusted anti-COVID measures.

China's trade with Central Asian countries reached $70.2 billion in 2022, an increase of about 100 times over the past 30 years since the beginning of the establishment of diplomatic ties, according to official data.

Qingdao is also home to the China-SCO local economic cooperation demonstration zone, which has seen a steady rise in trade with Central Asian countries. Since its establishment, the demonstration zone has seen more than 1,400 freight trains depart for the five Central Asian countries and 19 routes for China-Europe freight train services open, China Media Group reported on Thursday.

instability in the ME is partly due to the divide-and-rule policy of the US-led Western powers taking advantage and exploitation of the deep-rooted hostility between the Sunnis and Shiites and arbitrarily drawn post-colonial national borders. Stability can be encouraged by bilateral talks and tangible economic development and gains.
With the weakening of US involvement in the ME, China is presented with the golden opportunity to actively engage the different countries therein and create favorable conditions conducive to talks and cooperation. As such the BRI and SCO are great platforms. China seemingly has decided to stick its neck out and take the first steps to engage, encourage, and mold the strategic development and events in the ME. Imagine the peace and economic dividends China will reap in 10 to 15 years' time when KSA and Iran can at least work together, no wars in the ME, and the entire region is in alignment with China, petroYuan in effect, infrastructure build-up by China including 5G by Huawai, and HSR linking major cities in the region and connecting with Africa!!
Voila, that would be such a wonderful picture! And Europe will then has no choice but to join the party, leaving the US in isolation and self -pity. Of course the US is not stupid, it will try its very best to throw a wrench into this complicated machinery and derail this peaceful co-development in the ME.