Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

The Iranians had a mighty empire in the past in the form of the Persian empire. Traditionally the Persians were a force to be reckoned with
in the Middle East arena. They have good reasons to be a proud nation, in my humble opinion.
I do respect them having a distinct cultural heritage and identity just like the Chinese. If they have chosen a path of self-independence and self-development, so be it. China should stay friendly and help Iran whenever asked for within its capability, but still respect it for being west-inclined as long as China's strategic interests are satisfied to mutual benefit. I believe with relentless US-led sanctions against Iran, the west leaning faction within it will dwindle and weaken, and then Iran will sooner than later be drawn into China's circle of friends.
The Iranian President visiting China is a great opportunity for the two countries to foster the bilateral relationship even to a greater height, and if Iran and KSA can somehow be persuaded to sit down for talks to resolve their thousand-year-long animosity/hostility through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization platform, it would be a very major diplomatic coup indeed. Imagine what a Sunni-Shiite rapprochement would do for peace and prosperity in the ME and the entire world!!
China builds with partners for mutual prosperity, while
USA bombs others for self gains, in the name of freedom, democracy, and human rights.

Jono said:

The Iranians had a mighty empire in the past in the form of the Persian empire. Traditionally the Persians were a force to be reckoned with
in the Middle East arena. They have good reasons to be a proud nation, in my humble opinion.
I do respect them having a distinct cultural heritage and identity just like the Chinese. If they have chosen a path of self-independence and self-development, so be it. China should stay friendly and help Iran whenever asked for within its capability, but still respect it for being west-inclined as long as China's strategic interests are satisfied to mutual benefit. I believe with relentless US-led sanctions against Iran, the west leaning faction within it will dwindle and weaken, and then Iran will sooner than later be drawn into China's circle of friends.
The Iranian President visiting China is a great opportunity for the two countries to foster the bilateral relationship even to a greater height, and if Iran and KSA can somehow be persuaded to sit down for talks to resolve their thousand-year-long animosity/hostility through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization platform, it would be a very major diplomatic coup indeed. Imagine what a Sunni-Shiite rapprochement would do for peace and prosperity in the ME and the entire world!!
China builds with partners for mutual prosperity, while
USA bombs others for self gains, in the name of freedom, democracy, and human rights.

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Have you seen any proof that the west learning faction of Iran has dwindled or weakened? Or are they complaining every day about their relationship with China?

If Iran and KSA can resolve their thousand year long issues, that's great. But what makes you think they can do it now if they haven't done it in 1000 years?

Don't kid yourself. China's main goal is to do things that benefit itself. At present time, Iran has few friends. If it wants Chinese support, then it needs to sell its natural resources to China cheaply and use Yuan when possible and buy Chinese goods. If GCC countries are willing to do that, then that should be the minimum expectations for Iran. If Iran doesn't play ball, they can go find other friends.

tphuang said:

China wants to crush everyone

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No, this is a terrible and ridiculous idea and I'm pretty sure that the communist party doesn't actually believe that.

What China would benefit from is access to industrialised markets with a high potential for innovation. Just as the US has privileged access to European and Japanese innovation, China should have special access to its own allies. The US hugely benefits from startups and scientists moving from Europe to the US or Japanese and German companies being very happy to licence their patents to American companies and much more reluctant when dealing with Chinese business partners.

Isn't the whole alliance building about taking on the western alliance as a team rather than alone? A country like Iran is equivalent to a Chinese province. As an ally, China would have one province more worth of innovation and market size. Saudi Arabia is less technically competent but still useful. A country like Angola or Venezuela is worth very little as an ally, they have commodities but not much else. China needs to build up the industry and economy in partner countries. Angola may import a couple of cars from China. Iran will mostly build its own - but using Chinese car parts and licenced designs from Chinese companies. Occasionally, there will be opportunities for new ideas to be generated in this partnership. A much more valuable relationship.

Of all the anti western countries that are potential allies, Russia is the most advanced, industrially and technologically, making it an exciting market to dominate. Iran and North Korea are below that, but still have indigenous capabilities. Cuba and Saudi Arabia have some niches in which they're strong. All the other countries have little to offer but commodities or political support.

tphuang said:

Why would china would to deal with such a flaky partner who still has no respect for Chinese products?

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People choose made in China because it's cheap and good enough, not because it's premium. If you only want to deal with countries that have great respect for China and Chinese products, then there's probably just Russia and maybe North Korea left.

tphuang said:

If Iran doesn't play ball, they can go find other friends.

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Haha, that attitude is a recipe for having no friends. Why do you think so many countries love the US even as the American government is exploiting them? They used to be friendly to Europeans and gave a lot of aid after the war. Because they certainly didn't want western European countries to find other friends. It should be pretty obvious that it's not in China's interest for the Iranian government to fall and be replaced with a pro western one.

tphuang said:

Why would Iran having more industrial, scientific and manufacturing base be a good thing for china? China wants to crush everyone and import natural resources and services from them. The western leaning wing of Iranian society is anti china. Why would china would to deal with such a flaky partner who still has no respect for Chinese products?

China by any measure is the second strongest military in the world but the Iranians still have no respect to china. I don't quite understand what exactly Iran is offering to china that gcc countries aren't offering a lot more of?

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Iran and Israel will fight soon, all the winds are blowing this way, see President Raisi's letter in People's Daily and the mess in Israel's domestic politics. China needs Iran and Russia to tie down US, at least for a few more years. The arab countries might be nicer to China, but remember they are still under Uncle Sam's thumb since tens of thousands of US military are still stationed there.

Minm said:

No, this is a terrible and ridiculous idea and I'm pretty sure that the communist party doesn't actually believe that.

What China would benefit from is access to industrialised markets with a high potential for innovation. Just as the US has privileged access to European and Japanese innovation, China should have special access to its own allies. The US hugely benefits from startups and scientists moving from Europe to the US or Japanese and German companies being very happy to licence their patents to American companies and much more reluctant when dealing with Chinese business partners.

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What kind of special access has Iran given to China. Just tell me?

Minm said:

Isn't the whole alliance building about taking on the western alliance as a team rather than alone? A country like Iran is equivalent to a Chinese province. As an ally, China would have one province more worth of innovation and market size. Saudi Arabia is less technically competent but still useful. A country like Angola or Venezuela is worth very little as an ally, they have commodities but not much else. China needs to build up the industry and economy in partner countries. Angola may import a couple of cars from China. Iran will mostly build its own - but using Chinese car parts and licenced designs from Chinese companies. Occasionally, there will be opportunities for new ideas to be generated in this partnership. A much more valuable relationship.

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What kind of innovation is Iran bringing to the table? Com'on give a few examples. Saudi Arabia is very useful because it's a perfect match for China in terms of energy for technology. Angola and Venezuela works because they provide China with energy and give very little problems.
Has Iranians really been respecting Chinese cars or are they still waiting on the Europeans?

Minm said:

Of all the anti western countries that are potential allies, Russia is the most advanced, industrially and technologically, making it an exciting market to dominate. Iran and North Korea are below that, but still have indigenous capabilities. Cuba and Saudi Arabia have some niches in which they're strong. All the other countries have little to offer but commodities or political support.

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Russia and China relationship works because both sides have a lot to offer and have a shared vision. NK is a decade old ally of China that will stick with China through thick and thin. Iran has no real history with China. It does not buy weapons from China. It's only working with China because it has no other choices. It will leave China the moment Europe even bats an eye at it.
I don't know why you put Cuba and Saudi Arabia in the same sentence. One is an order of magnitude more important to China than the other. But in the case of Cuba, at least it has decades of history with China due to communism and that alone deserves respect from China. Iran has no historical link with China.

Minm said:

People choose made in China because it's cheap and good enough, not because it's premium. If you only want to deal with countries that have great respect for China and Chinese products, then there's probably just Russia and maybe North Korea left.

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Actually, a lot of countries are now working with China because the product quality is really good. Maybe you want to take a look at Pakistan and Thailand or even Saudi Arabia and UAE. All dying to work with China and bringing in Chinese tech companies in.

Minm said:

Haha, that attitude is a recipe for having no friends. Why do you think so many countries love the US even as the American government is exploiting them? They used to be friendly to Europeans and gave a lot of aid after the war. Because they certainly didn't want western European countries to find other friends. It should be pretty obvious that it's not in China's interest for the Iranian government to fall and be replaced with a pro western one.

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I just explained why Iran is not a good fit for China. That's why they are a transactional friend. Nothing more. China has real friends like Pakistan, Russia, much of southeast asia, Bangladesh, central asia and many african countries.

tphuang said:

I just explained why Iran is not a good fit for China. That's why they are a transactional friend. Nothing more. China has real friends like Pakistan, Russia, much of southeast asia, Bangladesh, central asia and many african countries.

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There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends, only permanent interests. Pakistan's friendship only exist due to the common enemy India. Russia has been at war with China for over a few hundred years and still owns 外东北. Most of southeast Asia still have ongoing territorial disputes with China in the SCS. We only recently fixed our border disputes with the Central Asian states.

When you look at it from a holistic perspective, Iran and China have separate spheres of influence which makes Iran a great transactional friend.

Iran's strengths and benefits it could offer to China are IMO often underestimated.

But the problem is that it doesn't matter. Lets be clear, China's number 1 strategic priority in Middle East is for (secure) oil imports. Iran can offer all the wealth and human capital they want to China, but if they can't offer strategic guarantees that it won't attack Saudi Arabia's oil infrastructure, then its all a fart in the wind. Simple as that.

tphuang said:

Have you seen any proof that the west learning faction of Iran has dwindled or weakened?

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Russia has ( or should I say, had ) a powerful pro west faction too before the Russian-Ukraine war.
Where are such political elites now? They have been sidelined to say the least. So never say never.
Russia has decided to look eastward from now on, with resultant policy shifts in China's favor.
I am sure Iran is contemplating a similar strategic shift because US sanctions with European acquiescence show no sign of abating. Iran's economy is in a shamble, and the pivot to China is possibly the only viable way out of it, hence President Raisi's visit.
I am sure Beijing will welcome him with big fanfare, and rightly so, to make the guest proud.
Things are really turning to China's advantage, and 2023 may be a golden diplomatic year for China.

Overbom said:

Iran's strengths and benefits it could offer to China are IMO often underestimated.

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Yes. This and consider that fact that for a country under sanctions for decades, they are still able to be a big player geopolitically in the Middle East. that in itself is still impressive.

Jono said:

Russia has ( or should I say, had ) a powerful pro west faction too before the Russian-Ukraine war.
Where are such political elites now? They have been sidelined to say the least. So never say never.
Russia has decided to look eastward from now on, with resultant policy shifts in China's favor.
I am sure Iran is contemplating a similar strategic shift because US sanctions with European acquiescence show no sign of abating. Iran's economy is in a shamble, and the pivot to China is possibly the only viable way out of it, hence President Raisi's visit.
I am sure Beijing will welcome him with big fanfare, and rightly so, to make the guest proud.
Things are really turning to China's advantage, and 2023 may be a golden diplomatic year for China.

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Wondering what the big bully would apply other many sanctions on China and Iran after this visit with out of the blue reasons, whatever it is