Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

it's fair to say that people are expecting too much from SCO.

anyhow, ASEAN express coming. now China is fully connected with Malaysia by cargo rail

This is probably the best that China Vietnam relationship have been in a while

Peace ark in Tanzania. Maybe they can build another one of these to show more soft power? They should do more port calls

tphuang said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Peace ark in Tanzania. Maybe they can build another one of these to show more soft power? They should do more port calls

Click to expand...

They have one (867) recently commissioned around Feb/Mars this year. It is sailing among SCS islands right now.

tphuang said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Peace ark in Tanzania. Maybe they can build another one of these to show more soft power? They should do more port calls

Click to expand...

How did it visit land-locked Serbia? Via Montenegro?

broadsword said:

How did it visit land-locked Serbia? Via Montenegro?

Click to expand...

It was Seychelles (塞舌尔).

I hope I can finally clarify the issue of "veto" in SCO. Here is the SCO charter registered with UN Treaty Collection.


article 13 memberhip
If member frequently not fulfilling obligations, it may be expelled.




article 16,
resolution is passed if no member object (consensus), except resolution is to expel a member. When expelling a memeber, the resolution is passed if no other members object.

Members may have their reservations recorded in resolution. Memebers reservation to certain aspect of a resolution does not prevent resolution being passed (provided no objection) and implemented.



Article 24, reservation.

Reservation that is against the spirit, purpose and tasks of SCO, or effectively hinderring the execution of SCO's tasks is NOT permitted. Such reservation is seen as void if 2/3 of members object.

To summarize,

• SCO has provisions to expel non-cooperative memebers.
• There is no real veto in SCO, ultimately it is 2/3 majority rule. The "veto" in SCO is like the presidential "veto" in US that can be overridedn by 2/3 majorities in congress and senate. This is not the kind of veto in UNSC.

taxiya said:

View attachment 132614
View attachment 132615

article 16,
resolution is passed if no member object (consensus), except resolution is to expel a member. When expelling a memeber, the resolution is passed if no other members object.

Members may have their reservations recorded in resolution. Memebers reservation to certain aspect of a resolution does not prevent resolution being passed (provided no objection) and implemented.

View attachment 132613

Article 24, reservation.

Reservation that is against the spirit, purpose and tasks of SCO, or effectively hinderring the execution of SCO's tasks is NOT permitted. Such reservation is seen as void if 2/3 of members object.

To summarize,

• SCO has provisions to expel non-cooperative memebers.
• There is no real veto in SCO, ultimately it is 2/3 majority rule. The "veto" in SCO is like the presidential "veto" in US that can be overridedn by 2/3 majorities in congress and senate. This is not the kind of veto in UNSC.

Click to expand...

I'm getting more confused, by your explanation there is still a veto. Reservations can be overturned, but not objections. It seems like objections are different from reservations. 反对 is clearly different than 保留. I looked at the whole document, it doesn't further specify the connection between objections and reservations.

coolgod said:

I'm getting more confused, by your explanation there is still a veto. Reservations can be overturned, but not objections. It seems like objections are different from reservations. 反对 is clearly different than 保留. I looked at the whole document, it doesn't further specify the connection between objections and reservations.

Click to expand...

Reservation and objection are different, but objection is more severe than reservation, isn't it? Reservation does not hinder other members in conducting objectives of SCO, but objection does. So how could any sane person allow the worst but not allow the less. Rule is made by people and interpreted by people, if the objector is in the tiny minority he is in no position to argue his objection isn't hindrance/resistance to the objectives of SCO. At least it will be noted, repeated such behaviour will lead expulsion.

Let's play out how it might work. If one member object a resolution, others will make compromises to turn that objection to at least reservation (abstention). If in the end the objecting member still object, it is either it is blocking SCO's functioning, or the other members are acting against the objecting member's core interest. What do you think the other members will say and do? I don't think it matters how the only guy interprets the texts.

I must say that the treaty is written soft on the surface but harsh in reality (expulsion as the final punishment for non-coorperation).

taxiya said:

Reservation and objection are different, but objection is more severe than reservation, isn't it? Reservation does not hinder other members in conducting objectives of SCO, but objection does. So how could any sane person allow the worst but not allow the less. Rule is made by people and interpreted by people, if the objector is in the tiny minority he is in no position to argue his objection isn't hindrance/resistance to the objectives of SCO. At least it will be noted, repeated such behaviour will lead expulsion.

Click to expand...

I think the there is also a difference between objection and reservation besides severity. I think reservation is used in the legal sense, from my basic understanding

A reservation in

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

is a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

to a state's acceptance of a treaty. A reservation is defined by the 1969

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(VCLT) as:

a unilateral statement, however phrased or named, made by a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, when signing,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, accepting, approving or acceding to a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, whereby it purports to exclude or to modify the legal effect of certain provisions of the treaty in their application to that State. (Article 2 (1)(d))

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

In effect, a reservation allows the state to be a party to the treaty, while excluding the legal effect of that specific provision in the treaty to which it objects.

Click to expand...

A reservation is like an individual opt out of a specific provision, while allowing the resolution to pass, while objection would not allow the resolution to pass.

For example: India can have reservations about a provision on assisting counter terrorism in Afghanistan, while the motion passes. While India can also object to the ascendance of Cambodia in SCO as a full member.

Also many Chinese scholars already mentioned the veto problem in SCO, I think we should trust their judgement.

值得关注的是，印度缺席上合组织，今后会不会变成一种“常态”？一旦如此，在上合组织成员国协商一致的运作机制下，议事流程恐怕无法顺畅进行。

Click to expand...

What deserves attention is whether India's absence from the SCO will become a "normal" in the future? Once this happens, the deliberation process may not proceed smoothly under the consensus-operating mechanism of the SCO member states.

Click to expand...

第一，上合组织的议事规则要改变，现在是采用协商一致原则，只要有一个成员不同意，事情就无法通过。但今后应逐步向少数服从多数这样的议事程序过渡。

Click to expand...

First, the SCO's rules of procedure need to be changed. They now adopt the principle of consensus. As long as one member disagrees, things cannot be passed. But in the future, we should gradually transition to a deliberation procedure in which the minority obeys the majority.

Click to expand...

从决策效率看，上合组织本身的特点是低约束力与高否决权。这既是吸引人的地方，也是最大的矛盾点。

Click to expand...

From the perspective of decision-making efficiency, the SCO itself is characterized by low binding force and high veto power. This is both the attraction and the biggest contradiction.

Click to expand...

而且，伊朗成为成员国后，在土耳其、沙特阿拉伯、埃及、卡塔尔等国加入上合问题上将拥有一票否决权。

Click to expand...

Moreover, after Iran becomes a member, it will have a veto power on the membership of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar and other countries in the SCO.

Click to expand...

Some non Chinese sources:

In accordance with Article 16 of the SCO charter, the accession of a new member to the bloc requires unanimous agreement among all permanent members, granting each of these members full veto power. In the past, Iran's application for membership faced delay due to Tajikistan's opposition, stemming from

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

that Iran sent fighters into the country's civil war in the 1990s. Those issues have been fully resolved, hence Iran's recent accession to full membership.

Click to expand...

Indeed, Tajikistan's change of position after vetoing Iran's membership in the past, or the fact that intense US economic and financial sanctions no longer prevented Iran's SCO membership, coincided with the strain in China-Russia relations with the USA.

Click to expand...