over the long term there are a lot of unknowns. but i think in the short and medium term, closer integration between Guangxi and Hanoi region, as well as along the gulf of Tonkin, should at least ensure that vietnam as a whole will not tip towards the west as HCM city wants to.
Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation
- Thread starter Strangelove
- Start date
The Saudis (as well as the other Gulf monarchies) are essentially on America's leash. They depend on America for security (especially against internal revolts). Here, I'm speaking of the royal families, not the country. Anybody who gets out of line meets the same fate as King Faisal (assassination). Below the king are a million princes with claims on the throne. There is a Hollywood movie called Syrianna which explains the situation very well.
China, I think, is not interested in these internal power struggles of Arabs, thus their influence is restricted to economics.
That's past tense, Saudia Arabia is officially in the BRICS in a shorter than two-week timeframe and is already in SCO for a few months (BRI too).
You can see how they officially welcome Putin, Xi, and other Russian officials and how they welcome Biden and American officials.
America can't provide security to its bases in the Middle East literally, look at what's happening to them in Syria and Iraq, how they are humiliated.
The US once had hundreds of thousands of troops in the Middle East, today they have a few tens of thousands, and in a way less welcoming environment.
America is objectively done with the Middle East. What security can they provide? Can they physically attack and destroy Iran?
China can provide better security by keeping communication between the Sunni and Shia worlds alive and influencing Iran.
China has to build its own military first for Taiwan, or the Saudis would probably also already have switched up the Chinese systems.
Because the US systems are majorly overpriced and they can't even arrive in a reasonable timeframe due to their small capacity.
I forgot to mention in my previous post that China is also the biggest creditor and partner for Saudi's 2030 vision and their country overall.
Public support polls in the Arab world already say that China has a lead over the US. The US can only threaten with hard power, nothing else.
You're not understanding what I'm saying: US is in the business of toppling regimes, coups and assassinations, while Saudi kings are fragile with internal competition amongst the princes who wish to be king. All US has to do is find one prince who will do anything to be on the throne, of whom there are no shortages (currently, Saudi Arabia has 4,000 princes with claims on the throne).
Once you become a Saudi king, you must always bow to the US or risk being ousted by another prince propped up by the US. Look at MBS, for example: he jumped the line ahead of many princes to illegitimately become the heir which is totally forbidden in Saudi customs. Then he imprisoned and assassinated many royals he saw as threatening. You can imagine how many royals and their children (also princes) hate this guy and would do anything to remove him. That is why MBS must lick American boots.
All hypothetical. In reality, he doesn't do that lol
Killing American journalist and telling US to shove it is licking American boots?
So why not? Maybe he has security arrangements that feel stable enough with China already. There is also an element that US have gambled away their goodwill in the ME by supporting Israel, to the point where even the most shifty sheik would think twice about appearing to be America's candidate, out of fear that they will be seen as collaborator to Israel.
It's America that's mostly desperate to lick Saudi boots in order to keep the oil access. But being seen close to America in the ME is becoming more and more dangerous. Despite all the US help, neither the yemenis nor the Iranians could be defeated. Perhaps, Saudi's pivot was caused because China could provide genuine security to the kingdom by (diplomatically) eliminating its rivals such as Iran.
America can't even keep its own small bases in Syria and Iraq safe, not to mention some entire country of that size, and give it full security. Recently there were entire military facilities were destroyed, soldiers were wounded physically and mentally, and killed as well. They are done with the Middle East excluding Israel. I think Saudis see how deranged they behave and are very aggressive and salty due to their imperial collapse so they don't want to risk it and tell them to fuck off straight out and stop cooperation, but you can still read it in between the lines. I mean someone that is that afraid of the US won't start selling oil and gas in yuan (Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc), start increasing prices through OPEC indirectly for Putin and directly against the US administration, even now when we are nearing the election, etc. They are also increasingly welcoming of the PLA Navy visiting their countries more than ever nowadays. I think nowadays even Iran has the greater power in the region.
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Seriously you are exagerrating China's rôle in KSA and Gulf states vis à vis the US. As the other member said, Saudi Arabia and gulf states are essentially under the US/West security umbrella and guarantee. The US has a policy of interference and involvement in its ally security interests and politics SOMETHING China/CCP doesn't want to get involved in and probably won't for the foreseeable future. China is mostly focused on business and economics not country's internal and external political struggles.
So, no China is not more important for Saudi Arabia than the US. Its just silly to even think that.
Since when in modern times has China provided security guarantee to Saudi Arabia or any country for that matter?
Seriously it seems to me like some people are wishing or hoping so much for China to get involved in the political abd geopolitical affairs of other countries so much so that they project that wishes/hopes into reality. Lol
China is not in the habit of getting involved in such things as i said before. Whether we like it or not but thats the current CCP policy of non interference in others political affairs since the death of Mao and opening up of the country. The US,Russia , UK, France etc have long been used in throwing their power around all over the world and getting involved politically and militarily in countries political affairs around the world so much so that its almost part of their national fabric but China doesn't and rightly so
So if you are a leader of those countries and you want to maintain your rule or position then of course it will make more sense to keep the US closer since you know they are more willing to get involved in such things compared to China who doesn't like getting herself involved in such endeavours apart from sticking to business and investment. So we should learn to separate those 2 apart.
Except, it's pretty clear that the US wants to get out of the ME and that the US can't even protect itself now (there's been like 100 attacks on US bases in ME since oct 7, by Iran and its proxies).
And as it stands, China can help facilitate discussion and brokering between powers (Iran and Saudi), and the economic part, Saudi is very much tying themselves to China.
So China's importance to Saudi is very high, not sure if greater than US right now, but in the future, it's assured to be.
Prince Muhammad bin Nayef was the heir to the throne. After surviving four assassination attempts, he was imprisoned and forcefully removed from inheritance. He now sits in prison. He is the cousin of MBS. His inheritance was transferred to MBS.
Detained
- Prince , billionaire businessman (Released 27 January 2018, according to )
- Prince , former
- Queen , wife of and mother of Mohammad bin Salman himself. Under house arrest.
- Prince , brother of al-Waleed and businessman
- Prince , former and former interior minister. Under house arrest.
- Prince , former head of and son of King Abdullah. He is seen as the most powerful of those arrested.
- Princess , daughter of al-Waleed bin Talal and businesswoman
- Prince , another son of King Abdullah and former governor of Riyadh Province
- Prince , former head of the Saudi Red Crescent Society and another son of King Abdullah.
- Prince , a former and provinces and another son of King Abdullah
- Prince , former head of the presidency of meteorology and environment
- Prince Turki bin Mohammed bin Saud Al Kabeer, former advisor at royal court
Uncertain status
- Prince , youngest son of King Fahd. There were rumors that Abdul Aziz, age 44, was killed while resisting arrest, but the Saudi information ministry released a statement saying that the prince was "alive and well."
- Prince , deputy governor of Asir and son of former Crown Prince . He was killed in a helicopter crash, though unconfirmed allegations have been made that his helicopter was shot down while he was attempting to flee the country.
Sanctioned
- Prince , former Secretary General of the and former head of the
Maybe, but I doubt it. I have not seen China in the past make such moves in the internal politics of foreign countries. Pakistan has stronger ties with China than Saudis with China, and Pakistan borders China, yet I've never seen China interfere in Pakistani politics despite the latter constantly being interfered with by USA.
What's to fear? Saudis are already seen as collaborators with Israel.
Emergence of China has tilted the politics but I believe USA is still a major power broker in the region. Do Saudi princes visit China as much as USA? Are Chinese troops stationed on Saudi soil? I am unaware.