Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

Overbom said:

A huge part, if not the biggest, part of why Argentina is what it is, is due to the US CIA operations in that country.

The US would never tolerate a strong and independent country in South America. I mean, look into South America, which country is an economically and politically prosperous country?

What are the chances that the people of dozens of countries are simultaneously not good/smart etc? What's the common denominator among them? Just one, they have the bad luck of being in the same hemisphere as the US. Simple as that

Because of this, I don't blame the people. As.I said in the beginning, CIA and Argentinian elites (useful idiots or just CIA stooges) are the primary cause of Argentine's current situation. So, people can vote whoever they want, enact whatever policy they want, as long as these problems remain, they won't change a thing

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keep this in mind. America has a doctrine of not allowing major independent car companies in rest of Western hemisphere so that it can dominate and control manufacturing. Just think about that. How does any country prosper without manufacturing unless it has a small population and enormous oil/gas production?

China right now is on a roll with south American countries whose people are tired of US supported right wing govt that sell out local interests for foreign multi-nationals. They have elected many left wing govt. This is good for China and bad for America.

We should not kid ourselves that the beltway is taking this kindly and won't do something about it.

Why is Venezuela poor? because it's been sanctioned and punished to death by America. Same with Cuba.

The only country that can sort of stand up to America in the region is Brazil and that's why Lula's govt is so important to China. Argentina was granted access to BRICS due to Lula and a stronger deep south America independence bw Brazil, Argentina & Chile is good for China. All with huge resources and farming exports that China need

I would be delighted to see Argentina prosper under Chinese protection. However, Argentina is poor despite not being sanctioned. Venezuela and Cuba are clearly victims of the US, Argentina is largely responsible for itself.

Compare Argentina with Colombia or Mexico. Both of them are fairly close to the US because of geography. And I would take them as examples that the CIA doesn't follow a plan to destroy any Latin American country, even if it tries to exploit them whenever possible. Colombia has its own issues, but they are developing and growing stronger. Argentina's GDP is not that different from either Colombia or Mexico, but they are losing relevance internationally and becoming relatively weaker. And every time people hope for a new beginning, Argentina manages to disappoint them. Investing in Argentina means losing your money

I'm much more hopeful of a successful partnership with Colombia, if they can be drawn away from the US in a sustainable way.

Overbom said:

A huge part, if not the biggest, part of why Argentina is what it is, is due to the US CIA operations in that country.

The US would never tolerate a strong and independent country in South America. I mean, look into South America, which country is an economically and politically prosperous country?

What are the chances that the people of dozens of countries are simultaneously not good/smart etc? What's the common denominator among them? Just one, they have the bad luck of being in the same hemisphere as the US. Simple as that

Because of this, I don't blame the people. As.I said in the beginning, CIA and Argentinian elites (useful idiots or just CIA stooges) are the primary cause of Argentine's current situation. So, people can vote whoever they want, enact whatever policy they want, as long as these problems remain, they won't change a thing

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blah blah blah China was invaded by Japan, and had same attention from USSR, US. Chinese went through economically despite having pressure from two superpower. Don't even try to equate the difficulty China faced with Argentina.

Vietnam also fought US, had half country occupied and bombed. They are now doing well economically.

North fucking Korea is doing better than Argentina. They are under UN sanction, had half the country taken away, war killed 10% the population.

Cuba is right next to US, under sanction, and still do better.

People have themselves to blame for not being anti-US and follow traitors. Perhaps getting poor and destitute is a good thing. Might force a revolution to purge the traitors. Socialism is not all fun and games, there is a revolutionary component to it. If China today still has warlords and land lord gangs today they will not develop either.

Minm said:

I would be delighted to see Argentina prosper under Chinese protection. However, Argentina is poor despite not being sanctioned. Venezuela and Cuba are clearly victims of the US, Argentina is largely responsible for itself.

Compare Argentina with Colombia or Mexico. Both of them are fairly close to the US because of geography. And I would take them as examples that the CIA doesn't follow a plan to destroy any Latin American country, even if it tries to exploit them whenever possible. Colombia has its own issues, but they are developing and growing stronger. Argentina's GDP is not that different from either Colombia or Mexico, but they are losing relevance internationally and becoming relatively weaker. And every time people hope for a new beginning, Argentina manages to disappoint them. Investing in Argentina means losing your money

I'm much more hopeful of a successful partnership with Colombia, if they can be drawn away from the US in a sustainable way.

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You know the country is fucked when it is doing worse than Cuba, the country next to US and under maximum pressure. There is no excuse, there is something wrong with the country cannot be attributed to external factors.

tphuang said:

if you have no idea what's going on in Argentina and have never been there, then I suggest that you just stop your judgement of it. And no, having spent time in Germany does not give you the right to talk down on Argentina.

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I suppose you have quite some life experience there? Why don't you educate me why it is so special a case that my comparison is inappropriate? IMO reflecting a social phenomenon in a country is not "talking down" on a country, it is just reflection of the reality.

taxiya said:

I suppose you have quite some life experience there? Why don't you educate me why it is so special a case that my comparison is inappropriate? IMO reflecting a social phenomenon in a country is not "talking down" on a country, it is just reflection of the reality.

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My point is not that you are talking down the country, but that you are making comment about a country's political situation without knowing what's going on there.

Yes, I have been there and spent time talking to a lot of locals. But that really isn't the point here.

I don't think Milei would necessarily be worse than Bolsonaro. He is a libertarian who is a slave to the wealthy Argentinian families. He may not like China, but he will do what the rich families tell him to do. That's what happened with Bolsonaro. A lot of tough talking toward China during election season and things were generally okay when he was in charge.

Of the candidates in charge, I prefer Massa over all the other ones. I think I'm really only qualified enough to go this far. My goal is for China to do well. If a leader gets elected in another country that's anti-China, then that's a temporary loss and China will be flexible enough to move on. At end of the day, national interest normally wins. China just needs to make its proposition attractive to Argentinian elites regardless of who their leader is

Two aircraft carriers, support ships, patriot and thaad batteries are being sent to West Asia. These are all assets that can't be used in East Asia. That's the great benefit for China of buying discount Iranian oil. The money is turned into missiles which hold American forces in other regions.

I believe this is a good example of the great benefit that China can get by supporting traditional US opponents. Obviously they have weaker economies because they have to work around sanctions. But they can greatly enhance security for everyone else by keeping the Americans busy. Of course turning US allies with stronger economies might have bigger immediate financial benefits, but reversing the effect of sanctions should also cause very strong growth in sanctioned countries.

There are other examples of countries that can draw American attention. Serbia is one, and China already cooperates with them. But Cuba and Venezuela deserve more attention from China. Imagine Cuba and Venezuela had as many missiles as Iran, but were also protected by a PLA base there. A new Cuban missile crisis could be quite profitable. A withdrawal from Cuba in exchange for a withdrawal from Okinawa could be a good deal.

Syria, Myanmar and North Korea could similarly be helpful, although North Korea is a bit different because of its geographic proximity.

Minm said:

There are other examples of countries that can draw American attention. Serbia is one, and China already cooperates with them. But Cuba and Venezuela deserve more attention from China. Imagine Cuba and Venezuela had as many missiles as Iran, but were also protected by a PLA base there. A new Cuban missile crisis could be quite profitable. A withdrawal from Cuba in exchange for a withdrawal from Okinawa could be a good deal.

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Wrong strategy, maybe in the Future if China had attain its Comprehensive National Power. It's too far away, logistically it is very hard to continue supplying in case of conflict cause it's in American Sphere of Influence or backyard, They have an Escalatory Dominance.

Minm said:

Syria, Myanmar and North Korea could similarly be helpful, although North Korea is a bit different because of its geographic proximity.

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For me arming Iran make logical sense BUT China doesn't practice hybrid or proxy war causes it create more damage than good, being neutral allow you to navigate the complex middle east issues and politics without being bug down, straining your resources like the American are having now.

Myanmar and NK share a border with China and are under the Chinese sphere of Influence, what they need is more trade and commerce to stabilized the regime. While Syria is under the Russian sphere of Influence as they have an air and naval base there.

ansy1968 said:

Wrong strategy, maybe in the Future if China had attain its Comprehensive National Power. It's too far away, logistically it is very hard to continue supplying in case of conflict cause it's in American Sphere of Influence or backyard, They have an Escalatory Dominance.

For me arming Iran make logical sense BUT China doesn't practice hybrid or proxy war causes it create more damage than good, being neutral allow you to navigate the complex middle east issues and politics without being bug down, straining your resources like the American are having now.

Myanmar and NK share a border with China and are under the Chinese sphere of Influence, what they need is more trade and commerce to stabilized the regime. While Syria is under the Russian sphere of Influence as they have an air and naval base there.

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The US has already maxed out escalation, they have bases everywhere around China. So they can't really respond by escalating, they can only move into escalation by shooting.

Even if it's not by direct military involvement from China, a prosperous Cuba and Venezuela would relieve pressure in Asia. So even loss making investments there can be justified, while the same is not true for countries like Argentina


Myanmar and North Korea don't consider themselves as being in the Chinese sphere of influence. Myanmar also wants relations with India and Korea with Russia. Syria is desperate and would accept help from anyone. In any case, making these sanctioned countries stronger would divert western attention

Minm said:

Myanmar and North Korea don't consider themselves as being in the Chinese sphere of influence. Myanmar also wants relations with India and Korea with Russia. Syria is desperate and would accept help from anyone. In any case, making these sanctioned countries stronger would divert western attention

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At the end of the day when the chips are down, guess which country they look for help. Everybody hedge, it is your national interest to do so BUT when the regime in Myanmar and NK (Korean war) are facing regime change from overseas, it was the Chinese who came to help.