No.
In the PLAGF, the tube artillery for combined arms brigades (in their artillery battalions) are all 122mm regardless of whether they are heavy, medium, light or high mobility.
Self Propelled Gun/Rocket Launcher
- Thread starter FORBIN
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No.
In the PLAGF, the tube artillery for combined arms brigades (in their artillery battalions) are all 122mm regardless of whether they are heavy, medium, light or high mobility.
Ok. I admit its sometimes hard for me to tell the 122mm and 155mm platforms apart.
I would say that logistics is the more important consideration compared to mobility of the SPG
Artillery guns can fire off ammo far faster than they can be supplied with.
An SPG could fire off all its rounds in less than 10min, then they've got to reload. And do this multiple times per day.
A 122mm shell is about half the weight of a 152/155mm shell.
So this means twice as many shells can be carried for a similar logistical footprint.
And artillery guns go through a lot of ammo.
Also note that a 122mm shell has greater than half the of the lethality of a 152/155mm shell, so you get more lethality per unit weight of logistics resupply.
A lower muzzle velocity for 122mm also means less barrel wear
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And on a strategic level, I suspect there are much larger stocks of 122mm shells and existing 122mm production capacity, as compared to 155mm
From what I understand PLAGF 155mm artillery is quite bit lacking behind when you look at an Army Group ,
CABs has 27 tubes of 122mm , and GA artillery brigade has 36 tubes of 155mm .The problem is Since PLAGF army groups are huge formations with 5-6 CABs , it means there quite a shortage of 155mm on the front when facing a NATO corp . Granted in doctrine PLAGF has more rocket artillery so that might not matter in the bigger picture.
However PLAGF tail to head ratio isn't as high as the US ,meaning not enough trucks as the US counterpart , so in might be indeed influence decision of which caliber is better suited for the CABs .
So, this is why I asked how many total 155mm tubes you think the PLAGF, because it seemed like you were assuming PLAGF arty brigades were limited to 36 155m tubes.
In reality, the numbers actually vary a fair bit.
PLAGF orbat tracking isn't my forte, however we do know that PLAGF arty brigades vary greatly number of 155mm arty tubes as well as LR MLRS units. (edit: what I mean by this is there is variation of total quantity of units between brigades, as well as the makeup of tracked versus wheeled 155mms, and the same as for LR MLRS)
One of the people I talk to who track PLAGF orbat a bit more closely than I do, a year ago estimated there were 700-800 155mm tube arty in total among the PLAGF's various arty brigades, complemented by over 1000x 122mm tube arty among the PLAGF's combined arms brigades.
And the 155mm tube arty is likely to continue growing as the PLZ05B enters production (their 155mm tubes have greatly grown in recent years thanks to PCL181)
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Isn't 700-800 kinda....low? Last year IISS put the PCL-181 count alone at 600.
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I haven't seen the specific IISS report myself, nor their methodology.
That said last year it's possible we had undercounted a bit.
Overall, I'm pretty confident there are about 400x tracked 155mms (PLZ05 variants), and add on however many PCL181s they've built in the last 5+ years. Either case, a minimum of 700-800 is pretty realistic, perhaps more.
I'm not aware of the IISS methodology either, but as far as I know they are considered reliable-ish, to the extent that any OSINT can be. Anyways, they claim 320 tracked and 600 wheeled 155mm for 2023, which seems to be in the same ballpark at least.
I think they may be underestimating the tracked and overestimating the wheeled 155mms, but I suppose that's picking at details.
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@wssth0306
Overall, compared to the US Army, the PLAGF's total number of 155mm tubes is a little bit lower...
However:
- all PLAGF 155mm tubes are self propelled (tracked or wheeled), while about half of the US Army's 155mm tubes are towed (M777 family)
- all PLAGF 155mm tubes are organized at a higher echelon than the US Army's 155mm tubes were (in BCTs), however PLAGF 155mm tubes can have individual units (battalions for example) attached to a brigade if needed. Of course the US Army is undergoing a reorganization as well (return of divisional artillery), but I don't expect their total number of 155mm tubes to greatly change in the immediate future.
- most importantly, the PLAGF's 155mm tubes are still growing in number, and they are also augmented by 1000+ 122mm tubes the vast majority of which are self propelled
I personally do not feel either the PLAGF or US Army's tube artillery force is superior or inferior to the other.
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In addition, the Firepower Regiments of 4th, 6th, 8th and 11th Combined-Arms Divisions of Xinjiang Military Region also have two 155mm PCL181 Battalions each