Issue is not just the cost of SAMs but the cost of what they protect and allow to operate. Plus, Coyote block 3 is meant to be reusable.
Self Propelled Gun/Rocket Launcher
- Thread starter FORBIN
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The key issue remains.
Take an arms production race between Chinese low-cost Shaheed versus expensive Coyote interceptor SAMs.
If the US chooses to engage in such a production race, the US will lose, and lose heavily if it tries to compete.
It always makes sense for China to produce more Shaheed until the US can't bear the cost anymore.
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As for the Coyote Block 3, let's see what they cost. I expect they will be more expensive than the Block 2. And how can they be recovered and reused, if China has control of the medium and high altitudes, and can see where they land?
And presumably China can produce its own version of the Coyote Block 3.
And again, it always makes sense for China to outproduce the US in terms of Coyote Block 3, because then they can attack all the valuable targets underneath.
You guys forgot AWACs and fighter aircrafts? Any drone that is capable of staying up for hours at a time and has the optics to see tens of kilometres will be big enough to be seen on AWAC radars. Fighters will take down the drone with info provided by the AWACs. Just because Russian and Ukrainian forces can’t take down large drones doesn’t mean other forces can’t
Other forces also have ELINT aircrafts that can pinpoint drone control nodes for non-satellite guided drones and the control nodes can be taken out with multiple methods.
Other forces also have ELINT aircrafts that can pinpoint drone control nodes for non-satellite guided drones and the control nodes can be taken out with multiple methods.
Don't all PLAGF combined arms brigades have a pretty well-resourced SHORAD element? What exactly do you think is missing?
So you want to combine the air defense battalion with the artillery battalion in the combined arms brigades?
Something with such control features and endurance won't be cheap. It won't survive engaging any air defense asset either.
Trying to deplete SAMs by cheap Shahed like UAVs is a bad idea. The Iron Dome has proven by example that SAMs could be very cheap.
Its Tamir missile is already cheap enough to use against the simplest Iranian built Shaheds. And it is still a massive massive overkill against them. We are talking about an active radar guided missile that can shoot down 155 mm shells here. An artillery shell is a Mach 2+, small, very time critical and a very tough target. Toughness is important to mention because it mandates accuracy which means expensive subsystems.
It is kinda surprising to see stinger cost more than pantsir, considering stinger is a manpads, pantsir is so much bigger.
The sensors for the Pantsir are in the vehicle. The missile itself is kind of simple it has a contact fuse and is guided by the vehicle.
There is also the price adjustment of things just being cheaper to make in Russia overall. PPP adjustment factor in Russia is like 4.
Iron Dome and Tamir is about $50K each
Compare that to a Shaheed which is $10K to $20K
Again, if you have enough low-cost Shaheeds, trying to counter with expensive Iron Dome and Tamir is a losing proposition.
China can produce many more Shaheed than the defenders can produce defensive Iron Dome and Tamir SAMs.
Plus the side on the offensive can choose to concentrate enough offensive missiles at a single target, so as to overwhelm the number of defending missiles.
For example, a really heavily defended location might have 200? SAMs.
So you put together a strike with 300 Shaheed with a simultaneous time-on-target.
The defenders run out of SAMs and have revealed themselves to surveillance drones.
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Given that we have the Tamir and Iron Dome missiles at $50K, I think we can use $50K as a baseline price for the lowest possible cost for a SAM.
Whether that is the Tamir, Iron Dome or Pantsir missile
Tamir are Iron Dome interceptors, and the assumption that they are as cheap as can be made seems deeply flawed given that those interceptors have their own sensors. A pure command guidance missile could potentially be cheaper. Also, anybody who claims cost effectiveness is a serious concern here is missing the point, as the cost of what the SAM is defending should also be factored in.