Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Pardon, but anyone who reads Russian Aviation books knows that Yefim is an idiot !

His research standard is sub-orbital level. In most cases a rehash of what he gathered from different sources and put together. He once had good contacts to several historical archives of several OKBs but in his recent books he uses each and every "source" available regardless how unreliable, faked or even false they are.

Just go and research a bit in reliable forums what is written about his books.

The golden standard of Russian Aviation authors are Piotr Butowski, Andrei Formin and several others but surely never ever Yefim Gordon.
 

b787

Captain
Pardon, but anyone who reads Russian Aviation books knows that Yefim is an idiot !

His research standard is sub-orbital level. In most cases a rehash of what he gathered from different sources and put together. He once had good contacts to several historical archives of several OKBs but in his recent books he uses each and every "source" available regardless how unreliable, faked or even false they are.

Just go and research a bit in reliable forums what is written about his books.

The golden standard of Russian Aviation authors are Piotr Butowski, Andrei Formin and several others but surely never ever Yefim Gordon.
look your rating is personal, but Gordon has written more books in the west than many authors, in fact midland publications in England disagree and Also Polygon press which is a Russian Publisher any way if you want to treat him like an Idiot it won`t change the fact Gordon has published books in England and in Russia and the guy lives in Russia some of his books are in collaboration with Andrei Fomin and published by Polygon Press in Russian language.

But this is point if you want to keep your point as such keep it, but i tell you when i buy books about aviation these days i can assure you the degree of information i demand is very high, because in the times of internet, videos and websites basically have replaced my craving for pictures i had in my youth, now if i buy a book, i demand in aviation books very detailed information otherwise i just continue reading online.
 
Last edited:

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
But this is point if you want to keep your point as such keep it, but i tell you when i buy books about aviation these days i can assure you the degree of information i demand is very high, because in the times of internet, videos and websites basically have replaced my craving for pictures i had in my youth, now if i buy a book, i demand in aviation books very detailed information otherwise i just continue reading online.

Completely agree internet amazing very fast, free etc... we can't buy all... but " press in paper, normal " remains necessary for some infos more rare but in French for me :)
 

b787

Captain
Completely agree internet amazing very fast, free etc... we can't buy all... but " press in paper, normal " remains necessary for some infos more rare but in French for me :)
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Internet has changed so many things from TV stations, basically I watch youtube these days, i have no tv, i call international calls via wassap or Facebook messenger, I read a lot of internet websites, so yes If I buy a book it has to have more information than most websites I visit or at least information that is published in a language google translate is not good.

But i do not buy books any more for pictures, if I buy a book about aircraft has to have so much information that an aircraft forum can not provide me or very technical with aerodynamic studies or with some avionics explanation that can teach me something new
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
look your rating is personal, but Gordon has written more books in the west than many authors, in fact midland publications in England disagree and Also Polygon press which is a Russian Publisher any way if you want to treat him like an Idiot it won`t change the fact Gordon has published books in England and in Russia and the guy lives in Russia some of his books are in collaboration with Andrei Fomin and published by Polygon Press in Russian language.

But this is point if you want to keep your point as such keep it, but i tell you when i buy books about aviation these days i can assure you the degree of information i demand is very high, because in the times of internet, videos and websites basically have replaced my craving for pictures i had in my youth, now if i buy a book, i demand in aviation books very detailed information otherwise i just continue reading online.

Just as an historian You should know: Quantity has no correlation with quality.

As such if You still rely on Yefim in terms of Russian stuff, then all is said about Your credibility on this topic.
 

b787

Captain
Just as an historian You should know: Quantity has no correlation with quality.

As such if You still rely on Yefim in terms of Russian stuff, then all is said about Your credibility on this topic.
I will tell very easily why you are wrong, i did some archaeological work in my youth, so I know how to sift information.

The first thing a historian should do, is being able to understand the language, for example when i did research on the Aztec writings, i knew my first step was understand the language, an Egyptologist needs understand Egyptian hieroglyphs, second is you need to treat what source has direct contact with the event.

Let us analyse Gordon and Fomin, they have written both of them books in Russian language for Russian publisher Polygon Press, both of them have worked together.
Third they have had access to direct sources, or in Russian OKB, basically MiG and Sukhoi.


I asked you do you have sources close to the event? do you speak Russian? do you have direct access to Sukhoi?

If you have the language part, then you need the contacts or the persons close to the event, in this case i said contacts in Sukhoi.

Officially Sukhoi has not said 055 was written off, there your whole argument falls to the ground, second do you have first hand sources some one at Sukhoi you can quote?

No you do not, so as Historian I know you are following very obscure sources, could they be true? perhaps they are correct, and you are correct, but in terms of veracity yours is very low unless you quote some one at Sukhoi you are just following conspiracy theories that is the reason you say the Russians lie, but i know they only will lie at the beginning of the program, not forever, like in the case of the MiG-25 TV program by "wings of Russia Studio" where the designers gave a good account of defects and accidents of the Foxbat.


Your mistake has being treat the source as official unless you give me a quote by a direct Sukhoi official, your credibility my friend is low, it does not mean you are wrong or right, it simply means you can not prove what you are saying.


I know this because some historians claimed the Aztec did not sacrifice people until they discovered Aztec codices and skulls impaled as the ones depicted. Why? they claimed the Spanish sources lied, I mean the conquistadores who conquested and defeated the Aztec Empire.


So sorry Deino, i know history, give me a credible source not obscure sources which are common on the internet and only lead to speculation and are only good for bias accounts
 
Last edited:

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
...
Let us analyse Gordon and Fomin, they have written both of them books in Russian language for Russian publisher Polygon Press, both of them have worked together.
Third they have had access to direct sources, or in Russian OKB, basically MiG and Sukhoi.


I asked you do you have sources close to the event? do you speak Russian? do you have direct access to Sukhoi?

If you have the language part, then you need the contacts or the persons close to the event, in this case i said contacts in Sukhoi.

Officially Sukhoi has not said 055 was written off, there your whole argument falls to the ground, second do you have first hand sources some one at Sukhoi you can quote?

...

Please do not always ignore that it is not me, whom I rate rated better than Yefim, ... please do not always repeat that I cannot read Russian, that I do not have contacts to Russian OKBs, this is irrelevant; I never said I do this on my own ... it's Piotr and he has all these items You name for Yefim.

However what You miss is that Yefim had contacts to Russian OKBs and no longer has. Go and ask some other (if not all) authors, who worked with him why none of them is still working with him anymore? He is like a sponge collecting information from everywhere and puts together whatever he finds - including a lot of BS, wrong facts and so on - but so he lacks any scientific ability to analyse, sort out right from wrong and discard certain wrong information.

None of Your arguments is valid therefore: Yes he worked with, Yes he wrote - and still does - but all he does is a reprint, re-edit and reissue again and again of his old information ... esp. in regard to the latest stuff and most of all the T-50 You better ignore him.

Not sure why You therefore ignore Piotr who's working for the Combat Aircraft, for the Air International, who has just done three of the best books on Russian military aviation with Harpia, who is at each and every Russian Air Show, who has contacts to nearly every current OKB ... but for You St. Gordon is the holy one ??

Deino
 

b787

Captain
Not sure why You therefore ignore Piotr who's working for the Combat Aircraft, for the Air International, who has just done three of the best books on Russian military aviation with Harpia, who is at each and every Russian Air Show, who has contacts to nearly every current OKB ... but for You St. Gordon is the holy one ??

Deino

I am not against any one, they are authors, they just collect information, 20 years ago, the information was much more scare, today it is not, I can for example watch online a TV report by TV Zvesda and see Su-57`s designers saying aspects about the aircraft even if I live in Argentina and youtube can add subtitles and even translate the information, same are websites.

Nowadays a writer is not going to say things a TV program will not say, so my entire point rests in the fact, Sukhoi has press centers and press releases online via website and TV Channel will air programs with footage and interviews to the designers themselves.


Authors nowadays have a harder time, the same is TV channels, or Telephone companies, like i said to you.

My whole point is any writer needs to quote, he needs to say, General designer X said this or that and it was said on this day.


I did not say you are wrong per se, i said you have no proof of such claims, and that is true, why? because any writer is like a reporter, they need quote people, not make news or as it is said now no fake news.


If you have a quote or anyone who claims 055 was written off, needs to quote some one from Sukhoi, otherwise their credibility is low.


Anyway i will leave it here.

There is no need to go beyond
 
Top