Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[kurutoga]

J-20 is as far from a copy of F-22 as the Su-57. The J-20 only follows the Lockmart approach to stealth design. Nothing else is similar beyond a superficial surface level. J-31 is a different story. To say J-20 is a copy of F-22 is the same as saying because the layout of Su-57 is same as F-22, it is also a copy.

As of today I don't think stealth shape is such a big deal, as long as you have powerful computers. It is the same principle that is in public domain. (not from Lockheed Martin, but from the work of the Soviet scientist who went to UCLA later) And a large intensive constrained optimization problem in the supercomputers. Several iterations may be ncessary.

I also don't think FC-31 can be designed purely from visual, and should not be, given AVIC's access to China's best computation power. Copying the shape of any jets will be hard and achieve the same level of stealth requirement

For Russia it is not an issue of capability but funding. Is super duper stealth the highest priority for Russia's national interests? For example, they could have a faceted front enclosure of the IRST, but chose not to do it.

 

[b787]

As of today I don't think stealth shape is such a big deal, as long as you have powerful computers. It is the same principle that is in public domain. (not from Lockheed Martin, but from the work of the Soviet scientist who went to UCLA later) And a large intensive constrained optimization problem in the supercomputers. Several iterations may be ncessary.

I also don't think FC-31 can be designed purely from visual, and should not be, given AVIC's access to China's best computation power. Copying the shape of any jets will be hard and achieve the same level of stealth requirement

For Russia it is not an issue of capability but funding. Is super duper stealth the highest priority for Russia's national interests? For example, they could have a faceted front enclosure of the IRST, but chose not to do it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

all countries copy, but to innovate, they need new ideas, further more there is industrial espionage and technology transfers.

Su-57 has for sure some foreign tech, either by commercial means (buying tooling and machinery legally), industrial espionage or tech transfers.

In the case of J-31, the Americans claim the F-35 technology fell into Chinese hands, which is very obvios just looking at its resemblance to F-35, same is J-20.
The were reports Chinese engineers visited MiG workshops in the 1990s and some type of assistance was given due to the similarities of MiG 1.44 and J-20

The F-22 and F-35 innovate a lot, but even in F-35 you can see the Russian tech lent from Yak-141.

the Russians also copied the caret type air intake and the vertical fin solutions seen in F-117 and YF-23

 

[b787]

Stealth
Small radar and thermal visibility is one of the basic requirements for a fifth-generation fighter. The effect is achieved through the use of technology "stealth" - a special coating of radio absorbing materials and a special form of the shell.
* The main characteristic determining the properties of the aircraft as reflecting the electromagnetic radiation of the object is the effective scattering area (EPR) RCS
Radar station
70% of the fuselage of the aircraft consists of wear-resistant composite materials
The PAK FA for the first time applied a whole range of advanced polymer carbon plastics. If we assemble the T-50 from conventional aviation materials, its mass will increase fourfold.
The on-board radar with AFAR (active phased array antenna) has a number of new operating modes that are first used in domestic practice. Unlike the previous models, the T-50 radar does not exist in the form of a single unit, but is separated by the design of the aircraft.

Nasal radar with AFAR (active phased array antenna) X-band
On-board side looking radars with AFAR H036B X-band
Wing leading edge radar with AFAR H036L L-band
Target detection range
more than 400 km
Pilot and his flight equipment

To implement the high performance characteristics of the T-50, a new generation anti-overload suit has been developed.




Armament
PAK FA is supposed to be equipped with the most advanced weapons for various purposes. According to various sources, the T-50 is equipped with 7-14 types of missiles.
Engine
The engine for PAK FA is characterized by increased traction, less weight, reduced fuel consumption, as well as new solutions for low visibility. Now on the fighter there is a so-called first stage engine - "product 117C", which is the result of the deep development of the AL-31 engine family and is mounted on Su-35S fighters.
ENGINE "FIRST STAGE"
"Article 117C". AL-41F1
Thrust: 2 × 8,800 kgf
Draft afterburner *: 2 × 14,500 kgf
THE ENGINE OF THE SECOND STAGE
"Article 30"
Thrust: 2 × 11 000 kgf
Draft afterburner *: 2 × 18 000 kgf

Pilot: 1 person
Weight: 45-110 kg

Flight characteristics
The aircraft's performance is not officially disclosed. It is known that the T-50 is distinguished by high maneuverability and controllability in the vertical and horizontal planes both at supersonic and at low speeds.
The fuselage faces of the T-50 lie in parallel planes, the air intakes, the leading edges of the wing and the tail are of the same sweep angle. The same angle is also at the rear edges of the wing and tail. In addition, the thermal radiation from the engines and their noise are reduced.
48 °
Sweep angle at leading edge
-14
Sweep angle at trailing edge
COMPLEX OF RADIOELECTRONIC warfare (REB) "HIMALAYA"
- complete integration of the system into the aircraft;
- the function of "smart plating";
- creation of active and passive hindrances to the homing heads of modern missiles;
- increase of noise immunity and combat survivability of the aircraft.
0.4 m
2
Area of the reflecting surface * (RCS)
In the design bureau "Sukhoi" declare "an unprecedentedly low level of radar and infrared visibility of the machine," although the EPR of the fighter is estimated by domestic specialists rather restrained - in the region of 0.3-0.4 m
At the same time, some Western analysts are more optimistic about our aircraft: for T-50, they call EPR three times less -
0,1 m
The true EPR data of PAK FA is classified. For comparison, the EPR of the Su-27 is more than 10 square m

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[b787]

The Deputy Minister of Defense also said that the Su-57 serial fighters with the engines of the first stage ("Article-117") will be delivered to the Russian troops in 2018-2019.

"We are moving to state tests of the first stage, and in 2018, with the deliveries in 2019 will be the first serial samples of the Su-57. And the second stage begins where there will be a new engine to stand, "Yury Borisov said.

He added that the engine of the second stage ("Product-30") is already "at the finish", and its tests are being completed

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Air Force Brat]

The statement in your link, that if we assembled the T-50 from other materials, its mass would increase 4 fold is 'utter and complete" nonsense,,, as are most of the other claims,,, could carbon fibre bring you a 5 to 10% reduction in empty weight, and a commensurate increase in "usefull load"? sure but 1/4 of the weight of conventional materials,,, that's just a "damned lie"! and you can put that in the bank!

 

[FORBIN]

T-50 4th no Su-57

 

[b787]

The statement in your link, that if we assembled the T-50 from other materials, its mass would increase 4 fold is 'utter and complete" nonsense,,, as are most of the other claims,,, could carbon fibre bring you a 5 to 10% reduction in empty weight, and a commensurate increase in "usefull load"? sure but 1/4 of the weight of conventional materials,,, that's just a "damned lie"! and you can put that in the bank!

relax, take it easy

The use of composites in one new aircraft has generated a weight saving of 20% over traditional aluminium alloys.
As carbon composites are, in general, only 60% of the density of aluminium, they provide a much better strength-to-weight ratio than metals: sometimes by as much as 20%. They can also be formed into more complex shapes than their metallic counterparts, reducing the number of fuselage parts and the need for fasteners and joints.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Developed as part of the "Composites Affordability Initiative" (CAI), these revolutionary design and manufacturing processes used in a demonstration of a forward center fuselage structure reduced the number of parts by 75 percent, and reduced the number of fasteners by 90 percent. The resulting cost avoidance is estimated to be as high as $1.2 million per unit. The project also reduced tooling by 50 percent and flow time by 75 percent.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I do not the structure of Su-57 but if there is a reduction in parts and density, the equivalent weight mentioned of those parts could be a weight reduction of 80% from the equivalent metal parts and structure and a net weight reduction of around 20%

Composites now weigh 20 percent to 25 percent less than equivalent metal parts. The weight savings could theoretically reach 60 percent, says David Hills, director of research technology for Airbus Americas. Less weight means less fuel burn, a huge savings for airlines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[b787]

The average value of this indicator in T-50 is 0.3-0.4 m². It must be borne in mind that these data are estimated, there is no official information on the RCS of the aircraft. The only official message is the phrase of the general designer of the aircraft Alexander Davidenko, where he compares the PAK FA and the F-22: "At the F-22 - 0,3-0,4 m². We have similar requirements for visibility. "

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[b787]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Deino]

Say HELLO to 511 !