Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[FORBIN]

and here we have the simple logic and reason that bring us to conclude that SU-57 has side bays, there is a need, and there is room!

But always a but.. haha F-35A/C can host big 2000 Lbs bombs and no others B also wide but less long coz lift fan 1000 lbs max.
Less infos for Chinese but similar " flat" weap bays and quite sure no big bombs.

 

[b787]

We have call PAK-FA the F-22sky for the last two decades or longer, the F-22 has side bays for short range AAM,

Su-57 is not a copy, it is far more complex, it has LEVCONs, dogtooth lex positioned lexlets (the side bays are similar to winglets), the only jet copying it are J-31 and J-20, specially J-31

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[FORBIN]

Su-57 is not a copy, it is far more complex, it has LEVCONs, dogtooth lex positioned lexlets (the side bays are similar to winglets), the only jet copying it are J-31 and J-20, specially J-31

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What means that

 

[b787]

What means that

its configuration does not follow the F-22 design features as J-31 does or to lesser extend J-20, PAKFA innovates with LEVCON, and the winglet type side weapons bays that work as dogtooth, J-31 is a hybrid of F-22 and F-35.

In fact Su-57 is an innovative design retaining a lot of Flanker, but with totally new aerodynamics.

 

[FORBIN]

its configuration does not follow the F-22 design features as J-31 does or to lesser extend J-20, PAKFA innovates with LEVCON, and the winglet type side weapons bays that work as dogtooth, J-31 is a hybrid of F-22 and F-35.

In fact Su-57 is an innovative design.

But completely, for have the Su-57 radar N036 Byelka power consider only the main radar ( 1526 modules ) in the noise or also in wings ( 2 x 350 mod ) for the total/capacity ?

Number of modules is more important than electric power or conversely ? by ex some fighters have radar with more big number of modules than counterparts and a less long range, a bit, curious.

A 3th point sorry tactical emloyment not sure but in a formation with stealth and not stealth aicrafts* the fist can attract attention it is a problem, nomaly for employment steath used alone ( i am a wargamer, board game hehe ) ?

I am certain F-117s during Desert Storm and after for others operation in Serbia, Iraq etc... with B-2 was always used alone.

 

[ougoah]

Heh!, HEh!, Heh, the Soviets copied the the B-17 and the B-29 panel and rivet for rivet! and as to your statement, "not everyone has to follow the American path??" NO ONE HAS TO FOLLOW THE AMERICAN PATH!

but they do, the Chinese bought and then license built the Sukhoi SU-27 derivatives, then they reproduced the SU-33 and called it the J-15..... in the design world smart people don't feel compelled to re-invent the wheel.

We have call PAK-FA the F-22sky for the last two decades or longer, the F-22 has side bays for short range AAM, the SU-57 has been designed to be super maneuverable and go head to head with the F-22, it will have side bays for those AAM, as does the J-20...

whats amazing here is that people with an anti-American bias let that cloud their thinking and their perception of the real world????? fun right, sure it is,,,, but "everybody" wants to eat at McDonalds.

The Japanese, Russians, and Chinese like American toys, sure they invent their own, but most of my childhood toys were Japanese reproductions, (think stamped sheet metal aircraft), of American aircraft! LOL

I had a really neat "Lockheed Electra" with spinning propellors, and a powered undercarriage with steerable nose wheel... koolest dang thing you ever saw!

the challenge for each of us to put aside our bias, and look at the world around us,, I'm starting to see things a lot more clearly, because like you, being on SDF has helped me understand how the rest of the world "thinks and feels", and that more than anything is why I am here!

I still remember an electric F-117 toy from my childhood. That shape always fascinated me and probably got me into appreciating military hardware.

I said nobody has to follow the american path to make the point that maybe they've gone in another direction. It's a possibility. But yeah everyone else seems to follow the leader at the moment because it saves time and money. Small variations and improvements do exist though.

 

[ougoah]

Su-57 is not a copy, it is far more complex, it has LEVCONs, dogtooth lex positioned lexlets (the side bays are similar to winglets), the only jet copying it are J-31 and J-20, specially J-31

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J-20 is as far from a copy of F-22 as the Su-57. The J-20 only follows the Lockmart approach to stealth design. Nothing else is similar beyond a superficial surface level. J-31 is a different story. To say J-20 is a copy of F-22 is the same as saying because the layout of Su-57 is same as F-22, it is also a copy.

Levcons are certainly an interesting design feature on the new Sukhoi though. Looks like a nimble fighter, retaining the subsonic performance of super flankers for sure. How these fighters perform at altitude and high speed I'd love to know. One other observation though, and try not to get offended or misinterpret me. The finish of the "skin" on the su-57 seems rough compared to F-35, J-20 and even F-22s. Close ups show F-35s having a finer surface finish than even F-22. J-20 seems about the same level. Even close ups of the new J-10 versions look very impressive to me. J-10A also had the rough panel finish like flankers. Can see imperfect assembly or slight "deformations" on the frame in some photos already. It's not a problem since they are designed to be tough and very ductile but fifth gen surface finish seems to be lacking on early production su-57s even though it's a vast improvement over flankers. About the same attention to detail on J-10c.

 

[ougoah]

Now that J-20 and Su-57 are both in service, it would be nice (although it'll probably never happen) to see them in training together. If Russia and China could hold these exercises in secret and use it to help develop and optimise how they use fifth gen fighters and maybe even how best to counter them, it would benefit both if they trust each other enough and do it behind India's back. Lol won't happen I know.

 

[b787]

J-20 is as far from a copy of F-22 as the Su-57. The J-20 only follows the Lockmart approach to stealth design. Nothing else is similar beyond a superficial surface level. J-31 is a different story. To say J-20 is a copy of F-22 is the same as saying because the layout of Su-57 is same as F-22, it is also a copy.

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innovation means to be the first to do something new, in aerodynamics wise, Su-57 is not a copy of F-22, it has features first seen in the world, the whole LEX-LEVCON wing structure is totally new.
If the side weapons bays are indeed bays, that is also an innovative design first seen in the world.
the intake inlet caret type is similar,that is the only feature they are similar.

Su-57 follows solutions taken in YF-23, F-18E and Su-35.

the jet is very different from Raptor, its engines are not as close as in F-22, call it Raptorsky well is not accurate

 

[ougoah]

innovation means to be the first to do something new, in aerodynamics wise, Su-57 is not a copy of F-22, it has features first seen in the world, the whole LEX-LEVCON wing structure is totally new.
If the side weapons bays are indeed bays, that is also an innovative design first seen in the world.
the intake inlet caret type is similar,that is the only feature they are similar.

Su-57 follows solutions taken in YF-23, F-18E and Su-35.

the jet is very different from Raptor, its engines are not as close as in F-22, call it Raptorsky well is not accurate

Yeah I agree that su-57 is nowhere near a "copy" of the raptor despite sharing certain similarities. J-20 isn't either despite its features having been already applied in other aircraft. It's a copy of raptor stealth shaping method and fills a similar role in the PLAAF. Talk about copies are a pointless exercise in ego boosting and criticising anyway so let's leave it at that.