Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[SamuraiBlue]

higher altitude longer range

That is the nature of lower frequencies, like S band reaches further then C band while C band reaches further then X band and etc.
Lower frequencies also goes around obstacles due to it's wave characteristics like going around a ledge of a wall.

 

[Deino]

Huuu ... ???

India says Nyet to Sukhoi Pak FA
Enough is enough for India. Continuing delays with Sukhoi’s Pak FA fighter already had New Delhi rethinking its course where Russia’s take on the fifth-generation fighter was concerned. Now that Russia’s only buying a squadron of them, opting for more Su-35s where its wider air force needs are concerned, India has, so

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, reports, decided to pull the plug.

You could ask what Russia, or more particularly, Sukhoi are playing at, but then the Russian firm has long been on a downward trajectory where India’s goodwill is concerned. Doubtless, even if it won’t ever come out and say so, neither New Delhi nor Monahar Parrikar, or his boss, Narendra Modi, can have been too happy when China got all cock a hoot over acquiring the Su-35. Even if that decision was a political dictate from Moscow.

Unfortunately for Sukhoi that other political decision from Moscow, the one that has become the straw breaking the camel’s back, was the economic necessity of scraping a highly expensive fighter when Russia didn’t really need it. Failing to buy its own highly expensive fighter in bulk has told India, and the Indian air force all it needs to know. So India doesn’t want it either. ‘We are not in favour of the FGFA. The Pak FA is too expensive even at this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities’. So an Indian Air Force officer told The Diplomat. Such brevity speaks volumes.

Except what is India going to replace it with? It’s own AMCA will be just as expensive if India cannot grab a technology transfer from a more advanced country. If Russia is now out, and China certainly is, then it leaves only America and the equally expensive F-35. India though must first rationalise its fighter fleet.

The Indian Air Force currently has no less than five different fighters in its fleet, more than most of its neighbours. Add the Rafale and the Tejas LCA into the mix and that number goes up to seven. Factor in the Navy’s MiG-29K and you’ve got eight. Three of course, need to be scrapped, and right away at that, but that would still leave four types, five if we remember the MiGs. So what could be done?

One answer would be to stick something in the Su-30 that will ensure it stays in the air. The next would be to simply accept help from either France’s Dassault or Sweden’s SAAB, even if it means the much vaunted AMCA India dreams of won’t be entirely Indian. That would match both China’ Su-35 (and whatever it comes up with itself) and Pakistan’s FC-31 (though New Delhi is, sensibly, seeking better relations with Islamabad, given the mutual terrorist threats both capitals face).

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Based on this report:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[aksha]

@Deino (tagged because the quote feature is not working)

they quote an unnamed senior air force official
and to to the Indian Express not the Diplomat

so considering that it is Fighter Jet News Quoting the Diplomat which is quoting The Indian Express
which is a highly untrustable news network , often called antinational by Indian Forums, Printing Lies,(i can recall instances of them calling successful trials of the Akash and Astra as unsucessful, reducing the range of the Nirbhay missile by half in their reports, calling the pinaka a failure when its users are all praise for it, many more examples can be given if needed)

this unnamed air force official could be the pulled out from the journalist's daydreams
or he could have been payed to to do a hitjob (recent examples being tejas)

I had advised here earlier,as had another member against taking an indian military news report quoting unnamed news sources as absolute truth




any way this was in today's news
had posted it on Indian Mil news

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the latest increment of 40 aircraft will take the total number of Su-30MKIs ordered for the IAF to 312.

This is a significant development running concurrently with the rapid headway in India-Russia talks on finalizing an agreement on an Indian commitment to the futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Arming India had on Feb. 3, 2016 exclusively reported a $3.7 billion deal-in-the-works for India's contribution to the development costs of the FGFA, and a further commitment to buy a minimum of 60 of these fighters.

i don't know if this news is true either but if it is we will know soon enough

 

[Air Force Brat]

Huuu ... ???

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Based on this report:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I have been predicting this for at least a year maybe longer? When PAK-FA 055 burned, that slung a giant "monkey wrench" in the works, and threw the program into neutral, maybe reverse as far as "momentum". The fire was kind-of a last straw on top of the issues with structural cracking, and the Russians "Lording it over the Indians",??? that's NOT how you sell aeroplanes, and the Russians have been dictatorial, the Indians have asked, and pled to be allowed greater access, and even to log a few hours in one of the prototypes just to see for themselves???

I think the Indians are fed up, and our old buddy the bar brother did note that Ash Carter has had a very good relationship with the Indians. I would say the F-35 is very much in play, wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Indians become the next partner in the F-35.

 

[Brumby]

Common folks. This is Indian n

I have been predicting this for at least a year maybe longer? When PAK-FA 055 burned, that slung a giant "monkey wrench" in the works, and threw the program into neutral, maybe reverse as far as "momentum". The fire was kind-of a last straw on top of the issues with structural cracking, and the Russians "Lording it over the Indians",??? that's NOT how you sell aeroplanes, and the Russians have been dictatorial, the Indians have asked, and pled to be allowed greater access, and even to log a few hours in one of the prototypes just to see for themselves???

I think the Indians are fed up, and our old buddy the bar brother did note that Ash Carter has had a very good relationship with the Indians. I would say the F-35 is very much in play, wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Indians become the next partner in the F-35.

Given Indian track record at negotiating big projects, I would just think this is one of the many twist and turns we should be expecting to see. The Indians have 10 different ways to kill a project and equal number of ways to resurrect it. Remember how many times the Rafael negotiations went off track and that they currently are still negotiating. Lol.

 

[b787]

RUSSIAN PAK FA (T-50)

a fifth-generation fighter requirements were formulated in the late 80-ies of the last century in the development of the MiG 1.44, which was supposed to replace the MiG-29 and Su-27. However, in the 90s, due to a lack of money and the decline of the industry, could not keep up with the speed of technology development - rapidly obsolete involved in system design and engage in their modernization was not for that. As a result, it was decided to close the program completely.

A new tender for the development of the Russian fifth-generation fighter was announced in 2001 and won the competition project "Sukhoi Design Bureau" with the name T-50. Two years later, the aircraft has been approved conceptual project, and in 2010 the first flying prototype took to the air. Last fall, the T-50 entered the final stage of testing.

Tests developed by the aircraft is not always without problems. For example, in 2011, due to the unstable operation of the sensor, servo motor for the job failed in the automation of the power plant. In the summer of 2014 when landing after a test flight was a local fire prototype. Only at the end of last year the plane returned after an overhaul for further tests.

Fighter T-50 in length a little less than 20 meters and with a wingspan of 14 meters is able to develop a speed of up to 2600 km / h and fly at an altitude of 20 km for almost six hours. He is armed with a 30mm cannon built, and the internal bomb bay can be filled with guided missiles "air-to-air" (small, medium, and long range) aircraft and bombs against ground targets.

An important parameter for the stealth fighter is achieved due to the aircraft shape, absorbing or reflecting radio waves materials, placement of the arms in the inner compartments and camouflage coloring. At the same time T-50 is able to detect the enemy first set thanks to radar equipment, in particular - EW complex "Himalaya", not only increases the noise immunity and neutralizing technologies to reduce the visibility of the enemy.

In 2010, Vladimir Putin said that to develop it spent about 30 billion rubles, and even the same amount required for completion of the work. According to other estimates, the total cost of the development will be from 10 to 30 billion dollars.

Due to the economic problems of the plans for procurement of modern aircraft for the Russian Air Force were reviewed in the past year. However, despite this mass production of the aircraft should be started in due time - in 2017.
View full:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[aksha]

from Jane's

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has revived negotiations with Russia to resolve the long-stalled developmental cost issues with the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), jointly approved as an equally shared programme under an inter-governmental agreement in 2007.

A cost negotiation committee (CNC) was constituted in late January, according to official sources, after both sides agreed 'in principle' to contribute USD3.7 billion each towards the FGFA's research and development (R&D) programme over seven years.

In December 2010 India had agreed to pay USD295 million towards the preliminary design of the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii) fighter, which India's MoD had designated the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), or FGFA.

from another article

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A high level Russian delegation is in town to hold negotiations on both the projects, high-level defence sources said. "We have got the clearance to restart the talks. Accordingly, a Russian team is here and cost negotiations began yesterday," the sources said.

India has already pumped in about $290 million into the project but it got delayed because the IAF had some issues. Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK-FA) fighter jets to India under the joint FGFA initiative.

Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK-FA fighters.

 

[Brumby]

from Jane's

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

from another article

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

If in principle, both sides have agreed to the cost sharing of $3.7 billion each, what else are they negotiating over?

 

[Deino]

@b787 !!!!

Do You really have to post each and every non-saying news report You find on that bird ??

IT's indeed annoying, since we can't keep on track what's really "NEWs" and what's simply a report copy&pasted by an unknown reported and posted in the Russian media always containing information, that tells things we already know, tells us what the RuAF hope to get some day ...

This tread became a "T-50-fan-boy collector's site" already.

Deino

 

[plawolf]

I have been predicting this for at least a year maybe longer? When PAK-FA 055 burned, that slung a giant "monkey wrench" in the works, and threw the program into neutral, maybe reverse as far as "momentum". The fire was kind-of a last straw on top of the issues with structural cracking, and the Russians "Lording it over the Indians",??? that's NOT how you sell aeroplanes, and the Russians have been dictatorial, the Indians have asked, and pled to be allowed greater access, and even to log a few hours in one of the prototypes just to see for themselves???

I think the Indians are fed up, and our old buddy the bar brother did note that Ash Carter has had a very good relationship with the Indians. I would say the F-35 is very much in play, wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Indians become the next partner in the F-35.

The Russians probably did push their luck a little too much, but there is little chance of India going with the F35, well not as their primary 5th gen at any rate.

They may well end up buying some, in keeping with their long established tradition of such things, but the Indians are too fixated to trying to match and counter China.

The F35 just can't stand up to a pure-bred air dominance 5th gen all by it's lonesome. Its not what it was designed to do, and it just doesn't have the raw performance potential for that.

Other than the F22, which isn't for sale even for the USAF any more, the PAKFA is the only thing around that is in the same league as the J20, which is why the Indians simply must have it.

They may throw their weight around and play some games using the F35 as leverage, but the Indian's will buy the PAKFA unless its such a failure as to clearly have no chance against the J20, in which case the Indians will probably jump ship (although they might be in too deep by that point) for the F35, but the Russians will have to have an epic screw up for that to happen.

The Russians also know this, which is why they weren't that attentive, although I strongly suspect there was also an element of over-selling/under-reporting of problems as well, which is the main reason the Russians have been unresponsive to Indian questions and requests, and why the Russians are so reluctant to let the Indians get behind the wheel to fly the thing for themselves.

The Russians have sold enough fighters over the decades to know how the PR and customer relations game works. So not wanting to tell their chief investor bad news until they can also assure them that everything is now under control is my guess as to why the Russian's are being so coy.

I think its a warning sign that the pace of the programme seems to be slowing, when it should be ramping up if all was well.

I have a feeling the PAKFA is undergoing a significant re-design, both to address the structural cracking discovered, as well as to improve its overall stealth and/or handling.

Once that refined model flies, and the Russian's are happy with how it performs, I expect the PAKFA to start moving ahead in leaps and bounds, much like the J20 now. I'm also sure the Russians will suddenly be a great deal more transparent and responsive to the Indians at that point.

India will get their test flights, and Russia will probably be ready to start talking about building and delivering pre-production prototypes for delivery to the IAF, so they can start trials and training just like F35 partner nations.

Such things happen with many programmes, and I have no doubt that the Russians will iron out all the buys and get the PAKFA operational, at which point it will probably start to give the F35 a real run for its money on the internal arms sales circuit, since it will be the only top-end 5th gen being offered for export while the US and China will never sell the best that they have.

TBH, in the long run, I think the F35 has more to fear from the PAKFA rather than vice versa, especially if costs and delays with the JSF keep escalating as the have been.