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james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
I wouldn't call it a copy, I just wonder how much better it can realistically be then the latest variants of 4th gen fighters offered by the West?
Does it really have to be that much better? Maybe just as good, but less expensive, and no political strings attached, is sufficient for the intended market.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
If Vietnam purchase 24 checkmates fighters from Russia, then it's "Checkmate" game over for China in SCS as far as 4 or 4.5 gen fighters go. No amount of J-11Bs or Su-27s or J-15s currently stationed on SCS islands can defeat 24 Vietnamese Checkmates.

China needs to dedicate an entire EMAL- CATOBAR worth of J-35s just to counter the Vietnamese threat in SCS.
J-35s can't even be deployed effectively on Liaoning or Shandong and J-15s would get wiped out by the Checkmates. J-20s from mainland likely can't sortie to Spratlys without refueling tankers.

So while I'm glad Russia can profit a few hundred million from the Checkmate sales to Vietnam, China must dedicate an entire $12 billion CATOBAR (or two) just to counter the Checkmates from Vietnam.

That's a ton of Chinese resources redirected from facing US Navy into facing a tiny nation on the periphery, esp. if Checkmates are purchased in meaningful numbers. Every CATOBAR counts against the US Navy...

I thought this was sarcasm at first... oh my
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I thought this was sarcasm at first... oh my
Why, do you think J-15s from Liaoning or Shandong can stand a chance about Checkmates? Or those J-11Bs from artificial islands stand a chance against Checkmates?

Only a CATOBAR of J-35s or tons of refueled J-20s can counter Vietnamese checkmates over the Spratlys islands, that is ONE less CATOBAR facing the US Navy in Western Pacific or Indian Ocean . Every Chinese CATOBAR counts against US Navy.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
If Vietnam purchase 24 checkmates fighters from Russia, then it's "Checkmate" game over for China in SCS as far as 4 or 4.5 gen fighters go. No amount of J-11Bs or Su-27s or J-15s currently stationed on SCS islands can defeat 24 Vietnamese Checkmates.

China needs to dedicate an entire EMAL- CATOBAR worth of J-35s just to counter the Vietnamese threat in SCS.
J-35s can't even be deployed effectively on Liaoning or Shandong and J-15s would get wiped out by the Checkmates. J-20s from mainland likely can't sortie to Spratlys without refueling tankers.

So while I'm glad Russia can profit a few hundred million from the Checkmate sales to Vietnam, China must dedicate an entire $12 billion CATOBAR (or two) just to counter the Checkmates from Vietnam.

That's a ton of Chinese resources redirected from facing US Navy into facing a tiny nation on the periphery, esp. if Checkmates are purchased in meaningful numbers. Every CATOBAR counts against the US Navy...

You haven't thought this through at all. It's like saying does Chinese J-7 near Vietnam have a chance against Checkmate?? No of course not... but is that the whole picture?

On topic, does anyone know when this show is starting and where to watch it?
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
You haven't thought this through at all. It's like saying does Chinese J-7 near Vietnam have a chance against Checkmate?? No of course not... but is that the whole picture?

On topic, does anyone know when this show is starting and where to watch it?

China worked so hard on comprehensive air dominance in SCS only to have it ruined by Russia trying to make a quick buck.

China might as well bribe Russia with $10 billion to not sell Checkmates to Vietnam, I bet Russia would accept to stay in China's good grace.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
China worked so hard on comprehensive air dominance in SCS only to have it ruined by Russia trying to make a quick buck.

China might as well bribe Russia with $10 billion to not sell Checkmates to Vietnam, I bet Russia would accept to stay in China's good grace.

1) Russia needs to turn this into a prototype.
2) Russia needs to complete development and put it into mass production.
3) Vietnam has to pay billions, then take deliver of "24 checkmates."
4) Vietnam needs to become operationally proficient.

I have no idea how long 1-4 takes, but we are talking about something in the 2030's at the earliest. China will of course have operated J-20s for almost 20 years by then, and have other stealth assets as well.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
1) Russia needs to turn this into a prototype.
2) Russia needs to complete development and put it into mass production.
3) Vietnam has to pay billions, then take deliver of "24 checkmates."
4) Vietnam needs to become operationally proficient.

I have no idea how long 1-4 takes, but we are talking about something in the 2030's at the earliest. China will of course have operated J-20s for almost 20 years by then, and have other stealth assets as well.
All fair points. China will have two or more CATOBARs with J-35 operational by the time Vietnam is operationally proficient with Checkmates (if Russia can even deliver, doubt it) and China will have decades of experience operating stealth fighters and carriers.

Vietnam and Russia stands no chance at containing China, they shouldn't underestimate China's firm willingness to defend SCS as it's core interest.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Why, do you think J-15s from Liaoning or Shandong can stand a chance about Checkmates? Or those J-11Bs from artificial islands stand a chance against Checkmates?
With corresponding upgrade, within air defense/radar network of the fleet, supplemented by loyal wingmen?
Yes, certainly.
 
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