ROCAF Indigenous Fighter Program

kliu0 said:

Ultimately the Taiwanese government has the final say if countries offer then new fighter planes. Taiwan desperately needs new fighter planes, and I'm sure they won't pass on any offer of new fighter planes that is sent to them.

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Well if things become desperate and ROCAF finds itself unable to find a seller for new fighters, a stop-gap measure could be to upgrade her existing F-5E/Fs like what Thailand and Singapore did. It would not only refurbish the aircraft (which aren't that old, the last batch are from 1982) but upgrade their capabilities with new radar, avionics and maybe TC-2 capable. It would not be ideal but it would be the most cost effective. The ease of doing so really depends on how dificult it could be to find a foriegn partner (since thats the way things usually work in Taiwan)

Semi-Lobster said:

Well if things become desperate and ROCAF finds itself unable to find a seller for new fighters, a stop-gap measure could be to upgrade her existing F-5E/Fs like what Thailand and Singapore did. It would not only refurbish the aircraft (which aren't that old, the last batch are from 1982) but upgrade their capabilities with new radar, avionics and maybe TC-2 capable. It would not be ideal but it would be the most cost effective. The ease of doing so really depends on how dificult it could be to find a foriegn partner (since thats the way things usually work in Taiwan)

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I think the cheapest way is to look at the upgrades other nations have done to their F-5 fleets; Singapore has upgraded their F-5 fleet to be able to fire AIM-120 missiles, Chile and Brazil also conducted major upgrades to the avionics package in cooperation with Israel.

Pointblank said:

I think the cheapest way is to look at the upgrades other nations have done to their F-5 fleets; Singapore has upgraded their F-5 fleet to be able to fire AIM-120 missiles, Chile and Brazil also conducted major upgrades to the avionics package in cooperation with Israel.

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Indeed, its not like Taiwan has no experience with the F-5, they've oeprated them for decades and the built a good chunk of them from knock-down kits. A lot of the F-5 upgrade programs are actually from Israel, Chile, Brazil, Thailand, Singapore, Turkey etc. all have have been upgraded by Israel. But would Israel be willing to do the same with the ROC? Afterall Israel has excellent relations with the PRC and wouldn't most likely not want to upset this. Taiwan could upgrade them herself but I think it would be more prudent to look for a development partner like I said earlier. If Israel refuses to refurbish Taiwan's F-5E/F fleet then that leaves very few options left who are experts in the field.

Something to think about:

The proposed F-5G, which led to the F-20 Tigershark, was supposed to be powered by a pair of TFE-1042 engines that eventually went to the Ching Kuo. What the Tigershark did was to change the pair into a single GE F404.

crobato said:

Something to think about:

The proposed F-5G, which led to the F-20 Tigershark, was supposed to be powered by a pair of TFE-1042 engines that eventually went to the Ching Kuo. What the Tigershark did was to change the pair into a single GE F404.

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So you're saying that if Taiwan were to refurbish its F-5Fs, it may also include an engine overhaul as well? As long as it does not lead to the F-20s rather shaky safety record, this could be a big boost to Taiwan since I think they already have a liscence and buisness conections with Honeywell. Speaking Israel earlier BTW, I had almost forgot that Taiwan almost bought the Kfir but instead opte for the F-5 because of the AIM-7 capable. If relations are that smooth between Israel and ROC then I guess an upgrade is possible.

Of course Taiwan isn't going to do it. Just that the tools and parts are there to make their own homegrown F-5G. The F-5G was the proposed upgrade to the F-5E before it was superceded by the F-20.

crobato said:

Of course Taiwan isn't going to do it. Just that the tools and parts are there to make their own homegrown F-5G. The F-5G was the proposed upgrade to the F-5E before it was superceded by the F-20.

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Well the ROCAF certainly seems dead set on getting those F-16s so maybe we willll see what they finally choose to do in a couple of years this is all still completley speculative. Well QIDC certainly have the parts and probably the techical skill to upgrade their F-5Es into F-5G standard. The Taiwanese F-5Es even have the F-20 style nose unlike other F-5Es.

Semi-Lobster said:

A lot of the F-5 upgrade programs are actually from Israel, Chile, Brazil, Thailand, Singapore, Turkey etc. all have have been upgraded by Israel.

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Actually Singapore's F-5 are upgraded by themselves (by Singapore Technologies (ST/Aero). They are equipped with Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band Radar.

rhino123 said:

Actually Singapore's F-5 are upgraded by themselves (by Singapore Technologies (ST/Aero). They are equipped with Galileo Avionica's FIAR Grifo-F X-band Radar.

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It was a partnership with Elbit

Here's an old thread with a lot of info on F-5 upgrades in other countries:


F-5BR:


F-5T:


If the ROCAF wanted to upgrade their F-5E fleet, they already had the technology and components to do so. It's just that the hardware went to the IDF instead.

PRC objects to major arms export to TW, but usually not component level stuff, like the avionics from BAE for IDF C/D. I don't think the PRC would object strongly to cockpit upgrades for TW, but HMS + AAM is another story.