Real life thread

vesicles

Colonel
If all your associates are uni graduates of one kind or another, then the chances are you will end up marrying one.
However I had a architect cousin who was very good at his work who at the age of 40 married a 18yrold waitress in her fathers restaurant. It was hard to have a long lasting conversation with her before thinking duh. She was extremely attractive though. She dumped him after 23yrs or so but not until she finished bringing up a family of four fantastic children who went on to pursue very successful university qualified professions.
I cant say I blame her because most of my cousins social life meant, him alone being out with his friends quite a few times a week.

A guy that I know (definitely not a friend) has 4 Ph.D.'s and 2 Master's. However, his career is going no where. It seems that whenever he feels depressed about not being able to find a job, he goes to get another Ph.D. in a different field in hope that changing field might help him find a job. But in the end, he would just take another postdoc position somewhere. And a few years later, he wants to look for job again, but still can't find one, so enroll for another Ph.D. The cycle goes on and on... I honestly can't say he is smart, but he knows a lot about everything. No matter what you want to talk about, he has a Ph.D. in that field:confused::confused:;);););););) I don't think he is too proud of his "accomplishments" either. He never says too much about his degrees. Actually, I got to know him when I was in high school and my dad at the time was doing his postdoc in the same department with this guy. And at the time, he just finished his first Ph.D. and was full of ambition. And today and after 3 more Ph.D.'s, he is still doing postdoc, but in a different dept/field... Being book-smart doesn't mean you can make wise decisions on anything in your life...
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I had a architect cousin who was very good at his work who at the age of 40 married a 18 yr old waitress. It was hard to have a long lasting conversation with her before thinking duh. She was extremely attractive though. She dumped him after 23 yrs but not until she finished bringing up a family of four fantastic children who went on to pursue very successful university qualified professions.

I can't say I blame her because most of my cousins social life meant, him alone being out with his friends quite a few times a week.
It can really be tough when a young woman like this marries a man that is old enough to be her father.

She left him when she was 41 and he was 63...after raising their kids. I am sure at first she thought the world of him and looked up to him...but after many years, particularly if the realtionship is not nutured, and as he grows old and she is still relatively young, you can see how it would happen.

I am sure it is heart breaking for the family...but if he ignored her, and did not spend time with her...it is not too surprising in any fairly modern society that such a thing would happen. Sad.
 

vesicles

Colonel
vesicles, you serious? four doctorates ... in what fields?

Physics, Chemistry, Statistics and Biology. I think he got his first Master's in China (physics) and his second one while getting his Ph.D. in Chemistry. He's in his mid 50's, I think. He has spent most of his life in school... Last time we met (at some kind of party a year or two ago), he was talking about going back to school to get a degree in computer science so that he could just find a job with better pay. Everyone at the party, including my parents, was trying to convince him not to do it. At least not to get another Ph.D. A Master's is enough...
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Physics, Chemistry, Statistics and Biology. He has spent most of his life in school... Last time we met (at some kind of party a year or two ago), he was talking about going back to school to get a degree in computer science so that he could just find a job with better pay.
If he has PHDs in Physics, Chemistry, Statistics, and Biology, and wrote decent disortations in each of those disciplines, than I would think that his problem has nothing to do with a lack of education and training in terms of finding a decent job.

His problem almost has to be in how he presents himself in the interview/application process. Something there must be very lacking. Perhaps he also has a financial/spending/debt problem...but even then, he should be able to find a very decent paying job.

No number of degrees will help with a person who cannot present themselves in such a way that conveys value to the employer in hiring them.

No amount of pay will overcome a person that always spends more than they have or take in.

Now, I do not know your acquaintenace...but I do know that any person who has gone through what they had to go through to successfully earn those four PHDs should be able to find a very decent job, short of other, non-educational related issues.

Oh well...I wish him luck and success.
 

solarz

Brigadier
If he has PHDs in Physics, Chemistry, Statistics, and Biology, and wrote decent disortations in each of those disciplines, than I would think that his problem has nothing to do with a lack of education and training in terms of finding a decent job.

His problem almost has to be in how he presents himself in the interview/application process. Something there must be very lacking. Perhaps he also has a financial/spending/debt problem...but even then, he should be able to find a very decent paying job.

No number of degrees will help with a person who cannot present themselves in such a way that conveys value to the employer in hiring them.

No amount of pay will overcome a person that always spends more than they have or take in.

Now, I do not know your acquaintenace...but I do know that any person who has gone through what they had to go through to successfully earn those four PHDs should be able to find a very decent job, short of other, non-educational related issues.

Oh well...I wish him luck and success.

I suspect that one of his biggest obstacles is language. He probably is not able to communicate effectively enough to land a job.
 

vesicles

Colonel
If he has PHDs in Physics, Chemistry, Statistics, and Biology, and wrote decent disortations in each of those disciplines, than I would think that his problem has nothing to do with a lack of education and training in terms of finding a decent job.

His problem almost has to be in how he presents himself in the interview/application process. Something there must be very lacking. Perhaps he also has a financial/spending/debt problem...but even then, he should be able to find a very decent paying job.

No number of degrees will help with a person who cannot present themselves in such a way that conveys value to the employer in hiring them.

No amount of pay will overcome a person that always spends more than they have or take in.

Now, I do not know your acquaintenace...but I do know that any person who has gone through what they had to go through to successfully earn those four PHDs should be able to find a very decent job, short of other, non-educational related issues.

Oh well...I wish him luck and success.

Agreed 100%!

In my opinion, education is only a portion of what can make you successful. There are many intangibles that don't look that important and cannot be quantified like a degree, but contribute significantly to one's success. This guy may lack significantly in that department. Mainly, it is a strategy issue. One has to make a sound strategy if he/she wants to be successful. This is not too much different than formulating strategies in battles. If the strategy is wrong, you will not succeed no matter how hard you work/fight.

First of all, in his view, education is a part of being successful. what I mean is that he believes that getting a Ph.D. is a goal. However, education should only be a path to one's success and should never be viewed as a goal. The goal is to have a successful career, a happy family and ultimately a good life. Education is one of the ways, perhaps the easiest and the least stressful way, to get you there. Secondly, it has been engraved in his head that he should get the highest degree there is in any field he gets into. I guess this makes him feel smarter. And thirdly, he is simply too picky in terms of finding a job. I have heard him complaining about job interviews and things a few times. To summarize, he is more interested in the jobs, for which he is NOT qualified. On the other hand, he has no interest in the jobs that actually fit him. The more degrees he has, the more picky he gets because he thinks that he has become better with those degrees and thus should get a better job and better pay. Even as he is realizing his mistakes and is trying to lower himself down from the pedestal, he is still thinking that a degree in computer science would get him out of the hole that he himself dug. Ans then, he is too afraid of change. Although he changes fields all the time, he still stays in academia. That is the environment that he is familiar with. Many have suggested to him that he should try industry. His degrees will get him into Wall Street (physics, his math skills will be useful in finance), large pharmaceuticals (chemistry, biology and statistics), or oil/gas (physics and chemistry) with no difficulties. Yet, he doesn't want to leave academia and he thinks a job in the industry makes him look less smart.

Like you said, education is not his problem.
 

vesicles

Colonel
I suspect that one of his biggest obstacles is language. He probably is not able to communicate effectively enough to land a job.

Well, I've known many immigrants with poor language skills who end up being very successful. How many times have you had classes in college taught by a professor who speaks broken English? It's all in your head. If you believe you have a weakness and try to hide it, you will be limited by that weakness. However, if you ignore it and refuse to be limited by the weakness, you will find that whatever you used to think is your weakness is not a weakness any more.
 

solarz

Brigadier
On the other hand, he has no interest in the jobs that actually fit him. The more degrees he has, the more picky he gets because he thinks that he has become better with those degrees and thus should get a better job and better pay. Even as he is realizing his mistakes and is trying to lower himself down from the pedestal, he is still thinking that a degree in computer science would get him out of the hole that he himself dug. Ans then, he is too afraid of change. Although he changes fields all the time, he still stays in academia. That is the environment that he is familiar with. Many have suggested to him that he should try industry. His degrees will get him into Wall Street (physics, his math skills will be useful in finance), large pharmaceuticals (chemistry, biology and statistics), or oil/gas (physics and chemistry) with no difficulties. Yet, he doesn't want to leave academia and he thinks a job in the industry makes him look less smart.

I suspected that's another of his problems. Sadly, people like him are all too common. I've met someone who was a Ph.D in nuclear physics. He was young at the time, early 30's, but he couldn't find a job in his field in the US. (No surprise there since he's Chinese.) For some reason, he decided to spend 1000$ to learn Database Administration (which is where I met him). However, throughout the month-long course, he very obviously had no interest whatsoever in learning the material, and spent more time complaining about how all this was beneath him.

He's a decent enough guy, but had too much undue pride.



Well, I've known many immigrants with poor language skills who end up being very successful. How many times have you had classes in college taught by a professor who speaks broken English? It's all in your head. If you believe you have a weakness and try to hide it, you will be limited by that weakness. However, if you ignore it and refuse to be limited by the weakness, you will find that whatever you used to think is your weakness is not a weakness any more.

I have to say I've never had any profs who spoke broken English. I've had 2 TAs who spoke fluent Chinglish. One of them was a cute girl, so the students cut her a lot of slack. Unfortunately, the other one was a guy and he got a ton of complaints.

Anyway, I agree that some people have excellent communication skills despite not having a great mastery of the language, but I have seen first-hand how language can be a barrier to some people, making them seem less competent than they really are. I can see how someone with only academic credentials, no job experience, and poor language/communication skills can perform poorly at interviews.
 
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