QTS-11 OICW. 5.8 mm Heavy and 20 mm Air Burst.

Skywatcher

Captain
*technically* it can have a 3-5 round tube magazine beneath the bolt action in the stock, no?

Yes, though given that the ZH-05 takes advantage of specialized ammo, it'd be a bit awkward if a light AFV came at you and your chambered round was a shotgun style frag grenade.

The genius behind the ZH-05 is that it thought of the smart grenade launcher as an evolution of the underslung grenade launcher on modern assault rifles, as opposed to being a magazine fed jack of all trades. Wish we'd thought of that for the OICW.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
not Quite. A under barrel style has a more convenient loading cycle. either forward pump opening breach, side opening breach or muzzle loading. also more convenient is the magazine feed compare that to the aft opening aft bolt loading.
Right now research is also being done on introducing the Airburst and smart weapon features to under barrel and stand alone launchers by a number of nations and makers.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
not Quite. A under barrel style has a more convenient loading cycle. either forward pump opening breach, side opening breach or muzzle loading. also more convenient is the magazine feed compare that to the aft opening aft bolt loading.
Right now research is also being done on introducing the Airburst and smart weapon features to under barrel and stand alone launchers by a number of nations and makers.

Yeah, though it seems like China wants to the ZH-05 to shoot distances greater than what you could realistically expect from a M203, IIRC.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Standard round of the M203 is the 40x46mm. The opening of that system though is limited. Alternative western models like the M320, Mk 13 EGLM offer a unlimited window for longer rounds. of interest are rounds like the 40x51mm Extended range round which offers ranges out to 800 meters well still fitting in conventional launchers. thee key difference being the cartridge length. They key weakness of the ZH05 and other 20mm and even 25mm rounds like the M25 is the small caliber means small HE power.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The 20mm cal and the substantially longer barrel means the ZH5 can fire its grenade launcher at significantly greater muzzle velocity than conventional under barrel launchers.

That gives it greater range, higher KE on impact (so you don't need as much HE to achieve similar armour penetration), and a much flatter trajectory, allowing for much greater accuracy. The smaller round also allows the soldier to be able to carry many more rounds, or the same number of rounds at a fraction of the weight of 40mm rounds, offsetting the higher weight of the weapon somewhat.

The ZH5 really is a new class of weapon, intended to give soldiers and squads capabilities not currently available to them in a man portable package. As such, they are not really competitors to traditional equipment like the under barrel launcher, but more as supplements.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Wolfe, I was not talking about against Armor targets but rather entrenched. The function of these systems is not primarily targeted against armored vehicles, and against most heavily armored vehicles Zh05,M25,PAWS20 and K11 would be found wanting. If we were discussing a light vehicle like a M113, or a up armored truck with armor equivalent to a WW2 era Hanomag ( German armored Half Track, which though you might not think would be encountered on the modern style field, given the make shift armored platforms seen these days it might make a comeback) There primary aim is against infantry and insurgent targets dug in to cover in buildings or fox holes. The airbursts mode of these systems against such targets is the factor. By He I mean high explosive charge and particularly high explosive force in a antipersonnel capacity not antitank. In a antipersonnel capacity the small size of the 20mm round is always going to hold a weaker weight or fragmentation and explosive charge then a 40mm shell. A small fighting position with say three people packed in tight might be in the capacity of the ZH05's airburst but if you have a large position with a dozen fighters. You might not be able to knock it out of the fight.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
i dont know why everyone is so hyped about those "integrated" systems. they are heavy and not very versatile cuz you cant take off the parts that you dont need. i would never go into a CQB combat with that weapon. i think a rifle + mounted grenade launcher is the best option. hopefully Canada aint stupid enough to go with some random integrated design, i dont wanna walk with a 20lb piece of crap for miles and miles.

It's good and useful for mechanize infantry though.;)
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Wolfe, I was not talking about against Armor targets but rather entrenched. The function of these systems is not primarily targeted against armored vehicles, and against most heavily armored vehicles Zh05,M25,PAWS20 and K11 would be found wanting. If we were discussing a light vehicle like a M113, or a up armored truck with armor equivalent to a WW2 era Hanomag ( German armored Half Track, which though you might not think would be encountered on the modern style field, given the make shift armored platforms seen these days it might make a comeback) There primary aim is against infantry and insurgent targets dug in to cover in buildings or fox holes. The airbursts mode of these systems against such targets is the factor. By He I mean high explosive charge and particularly high explosive force in a antipersonnel capacity not antitank. In a antipersonnel capacity the small size of the 20mm round is always going to hold a weaker weight or fragmentation and explosive charge then a 40mm shell. A small fighting position with say three people packed in tight might be in the capacity of the ZH05's airburst but if you have a large position with a dozen fighters. You might not be able to knock it out of the fight.

Until they develop an underslung 40mm shell that has a programmable fuze and equal range, then weapons like XM-25 and ZH-05's 20mm grenade will be superior to 40mm underslung grenade launchers in antipersonnel roles.

If you're going to develop a fire control system and if you want good accuracy for a larger calibre and longer range 40mm grenade you may as well develop a separate gun instead of strapping it onto a rifle. Something like the LG5 35mm grenade sniper round, which supposedly has an FCS/smart fuse capability.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Blitz, it's not as complicated as you might think. First for your fire control system what you need is a range finder and a ballistic calculator. The FCS of the XM29 and M25 are meant to add more features and have built in Zoom and IR vission modes. This makes them more like a one peice Solder digitalization kit then just a weapon. But if you take away the digital zoom and vision modes cut it down to a ballistic laser range finder, a calculator with preprogramed ballistics tables of ranges for preprogramed round options to do the trigonometry, Balance sensor to tell the system where it stands in relation to the desired angle and a simple interface to show the user to in high low and normal light conditions operate the system then you Can shrink it off the top of the system and make it far more manageable. Already there are 40mm sighting system in the market place, Wilcox RAAM for example.

next step is to integrate a interface to allow the user to program the shell with the desired range. Making the shell programmable is already established if you have a OICW program scaling it to a larger shell actually makes it easier. What you need is a is a system that allows you to range the enemy select from a preprogrammed option of rounds ballistics table's and in the case of a smart round tell it when to explode.
Most if not all of this is already in the works.
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This seems rather complex when described but to the end user what it means is that there weapon lets say a M4A1 with a M320 would have mounted on side of the system via the Grenade launcher's Mil std 1913 rail interface. The system would powered by lithium ion CR123 batteries would be a little under 2 pounds and probably no bigger then 6inchs long by 3 inches wide by 4 inches high. The interface would likely be a USB cable port. A LCD screen, a switch that allows the system to be cycled through it's modes such as diagnostic, power save, ammo type selection, smart round. A lasing button a lock button to tell it that's what you want to kill, and two buttons, one to reduce the programmed range for airburst one to increase it. A display system probably LCD that lets the operator select his round's ballistic data, what range he has lased and what he is telling the airburst to explode at. Then a sight to he can aim and line up on target this could be as simple as a set of green and red LEDs like the F2000's system or a reflex optic on a mechanical gimbal.
User would select his round lets say for conventional mode a M441 HE grenade. He lases the target lowers the range desired to attack by increments of meters. The calculator does the trig tells him to aim up by a set angle. When he is on target the sight turns green he pulls the trigger on the launcher. The round archs into the target.
For airburst he loads a airburst round sets the system, lases tells the system to explode a meter above the ground 2 meters behind the target. The computer tells the round by Wi-Fi, the computer does the trig tells him where to aim he lines up and pulls the trigger and ruins someone's day.
The key advantages of the M25 and ZH05 is the flat trajectory. It allows longer ranges and more linear target attack. The key advantage of the 40mm is the wider range of rounds the established logistics and the higher explosive power. Both have advantages in some situations over the other. A flat trajectory for example might be better on targets in a building firing from Windows. Well the arching fire of the 40mm might work better on targets behind a wall. There is also work on 40x46mm UAV rounds and Self guided 40mm rounds.
 
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