QBZ-191 service rifle family

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
1. The factory that produce the new rifle has a direct linage with Hanyang (汉阳兵工厂 ), and is located in Southwestern China. (Anyone familiar with Chinese small arms military factory can shine some light on which factory this is?)

No wonder Hanyang sounded so familiar, I don’t know much about the factories myself but there was a Forgotten Weapons ep about the General Liu’s rifle like 4 years ago that had some info on Hanyang, not exactly relevant to this but thought I would share


My thoughts:
QBZ-191's focus on user end feedback is fantastic. Small arms design is extremely detail orientated. Well made and poorly designed service rifles all can all kill people efficiently, most of the times the guns are more accurate and reliable than the user. User experiences with how the gun handles makes all the difference. QBZ-191 has made significant improvements in this area.

Obvious features like the top rail, adjustable buttstock, modular handguard can drastically improve user experience. Other changes are less obvious. QBZ-191 has a grip storage compartment, which is great at storing batteries (you can never go wrong with having extra storage space on your gun). A better and crisper trigger can significantly improve the accuracy of the weapon. 30 degree angle of rotation for each fire mode on the fire selector switch means that soldiers can switch from safe to fire in an instant, which can be life saving in CQB.

AK style magazines are a pain in the ass the reload. I have yet to see a single person (with little experience with firearm) that can successfully reload a AK style magazine on first try, the paddle release on AK style weapons are often incredibly stiff, and inserting the magazine and clip it in is also a difficult process, even for experienced users. AR-15 style weapons are just so much easier to reload than AKs because of the way magazines are locked-in. The fact that QBZ-191 has a pronounced magwell, and an easy to release paddle means that the designers are aware of the problem of AK style flap release, and have significantly improved this problem for the weapon.

Center of balance on small arms is also important, especially for traditional layout weapons. I have a love-hate relationship with bullpups. One the one hand, bullpups are so much easier to handle since the front end of the gun is not heavy, but they have mushy triggers, and are incredibly awkward to reload when you wear plate carriers. Although traditional layout rifles have better reloads and better triggers, some are too front heavy. Front heavy guns are incredibly difficult to maneuver with. Hold down your aim steadily while standing up for more than 30 seconds can be impossible if the gun is too front heavy. For CQB operations where you need to open up a lot of doors, and handle our gun single handedly, a front heavy gun will exhaust you very quickly. The fact that users of QBZ-191 are happy with its balance, especially when switching from a bullpup to traditional layout, is an incredible achievement.

It would have been nice if they talked about some of the internal bits... really would like to fine out if the new rifle kept the AK style bolt and bolt carrier or have something more similar to the AR style or now have something new uniquely Chinese or some AK-AR combo and also about the fire control group... I remember some images at the beginning of the QBZ-191 thread that was believed to be possible internals of QBZ-191 with something looking more akin to an AR fire control group, wonder if that was confirmed...
 

Kejora

Junior Member
Registered Member
No wonder Hanyang sounded so familiar, I don’t know much about the factories myself but there was a Forgotten Weapons ep about the General Liu’s rifle like 4 years ago that had some info on Hanyang, not exactly relevant to this but thought I would share




It would have been nice if they talked about some of the internal bits... really would like to fine out if the new rifle kept the AK style bolt and bolt carrier or have something more similar to the AR style or now have something new uniquely Chinese or some AK-AR combo and also about the fire control group... I remember some images at the beginning of the QBZ-191 thread that was believed to be possible internals of QBZ-191 with something looking more akin to an AR fire control group, wonder if that was confirmed...
I remember seeing a slow motion footage of cases being ejected from QBZ-191, the cases was ejected when the bolt went pretty far to the rear, so I'd say it has fixed ejector like AK and Daewoo K2 not plunger like AR-15.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
No wonder Hanyang sounded so familiar, I don’t know much about the factories myself but there was a Forgotten Weapons ep about the General Liu’s rifle like 4 years ago that had some info on Hanyang, not exactly relevant to this but thought I would share




It would have been nice if they talked about some of the internal bits... really would like to fine out if the new rifle kept the AK style bolt and bolt carrier or have something more similar to the AR style or now have something new uniquely Chinese or some AK-AR combo and also about the fire control group... I remember some images at the beginning of the QBZ-191 thread that was believed to be possible internals of QBZ-191 with something looking more akin to an AR fire control group, wonder if that was confirmed...
Hanyang is a district within Wuhan, and if I remember correctly, it contains an arsenal established during the later era of the Qing dynasty. Plus it helped produce weapons for the revolutionaries during the Wuchang Uprising.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
I remember seeing a slow motion footage of cases being ejected from QBZ-191, the cases was ejected when the bolt went pretty far to the rear, so I'd say it has fixed ejector like AK and Daewoo K2 not plunger like AR-15.
Well that would be pretty in-line with overall Chinese design philosophy, less small parts and complication in the bolt and may also explain why the shell ejection is too much... same with the QBZ-95 which kicks the brass miles away
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hanyang is a district within Wuhan, and if I remember correctly, it contains an arsenal established during the later era of the Qing dynasty. Plus it helped produce weapons for the revolutionaries during the Wuchang Uprising.
Well learn something new everyday... the Hanyang arsenal could have been the site to build China’s first semi-automatic rifle too but alas it wasn’t to be...
 

lgnxz

Junior Member
Registered Member
The factory produces training versions of the new rifle.
What is this supposed to mean?? Airsoft? Paintball? Rifle but with inferior quality? Those three options seem unnecessary to me, so it makes me wonder further what's a training rifle even..
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Well that would be pretty in-line with overall Chinese design philosophy, less small parts and complication in the bolt and may also explain why the shell ejection is too much... same with the QBZ-95 which kicks the brass miles away

It is commonly known by Canadian shooters that the Type97 is designed to send brass back to China when fired. Looks like the new rifle is carrying on with that tradition. ;)
 

Saru

Junior Member
Registered Member
What is this supposed to mean?? Airsoft? Paintball? Rifle but with inferior quality? Those three options seem unnecessary to me, so it makes me wonder further what's a training rifle even..
Training model is simply getting used to the new features and aspects of the gun with excessive safety.

They may not be difficult to get into but PLA don't take any risks.
 

lgnxz

Junior Member
Registered Member
They may not be difficult to get into but PLA don't take any risks.
What you just mentioned can be easily done with standard rifle that has no round in it. I visited the site itself and it seems like the author is talking about a toy gun (the realistic one, the one which usually has an orange color at the tip of its barrel in the west as an identification). Still I don't believe that it's going to be mass produced for training, empty rifles will teach anyone better than a toy without compromising safety.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
What you just mentioned can be easily done with standard rifle that has no round in it. I visited the site itself and it seems like the author is talking about a toy gun (the realistic one, the one which usually has an orange color at the tip of its barrel in the west as an identification). Still I don't believe that it's going to be mass produced for training, empty rifles will teach anyone better than a toy without compromising safety.

There are many categories of training weapons ranging from your basic rubber dummies (useful for general PT exercises where you want to simulate the weight and bulk of a gun without needing to go through the normal security steps of noting down serial numbers issued to each soldier etc); through to airsoft/paintball/simunitions for close quarters direct fire training; right through to 22lr versions for soldiers to be able to do repetitive shooting drills to improve speed and develop muscles memory without spending a fortune on ammunition since 22lr costs a tiny fraction of what a full bore centre fire round would.

From the description, I’m guessing the factory is either making simunition or 22lr versions of the regular service rifle.

These would weigh the same and handle exactly the same as regular weapons, only they will be shooting simunitions/22lr rather than regular 5.8.
 
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