QBZ-191 service rifle family

Neurosmith said:

Fair enough, but the point still stands; PLA brass obviously has different priorities for the money saved by not upgrading the rifles' handguards.

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They obviously do. Whether their decision in this case is wise or was reached after careful consideration is up to debate, as was their decision to use zippers on combat boots to save a few bucks, leaving soldiers with non-functioning boots after just a few months of use. There is a pattern here, and not a good one in my view.

Wrought said:

Worrying about what happens after the conflict is a luxury awarded to the victor with a functioning society/economy/institutions/etc. I can only imagine said victor would be happy to face such problems if and when they arise.

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What a nihilistic and strange view on life. No conflict lasts forever, and when it is over, whether it ends in victory or defeat, what else do you occupy yourselves with but building a functioning peacetime economy?

by78 said:

What a nihilistic and strange point of view. No conflict lasts forever, and when it is over, whether it ends in victory or defeat, what else do you occupy yourselves with but building a functioning peacetime economy?

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I think you misunderstood my meaning. Worrying about what happens after a conflict is not the responsibility of the military, it is the responsibility of society/economy/institutions (assuming they still exist after the conflict). The military focuses on winning wars; if more tanks and worse rifles is the best way to do so, then they are correct to follow that path.

Wrought said:

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Worrying about what happens after a conflict is not the responsibility of the military, it is the responsibility of society/economy/institutions (assuming they still exist after the conflict). The military focuses on winning wars; if more tanks and fewer rifles is the best way to do so, then they are correct to follow that path.

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The military is subordinate to the civilian authority at all times, especially during peacetime. It's one piece of the puzzle, a component of the whole. The military doesn't exist in a vacuum. If it doesn't realize its decisions have consequences beyond their official purview, extending far beyond conflicts into post-war peacetime, then it's up to the civilian leadership to give the military leadership an attitude adjustment.

But we're off-topic now. Anyway, more urgent than new handguards is the situation with the new combat boots. The bean counters had decided to save a few yuan by using zippers. Could you believe that? Zippers on combat boots, which cause them to fall apart after just a few months! Now they have to re-design the boots and issue replacements, which will cost far more than if they had gone with a slightly more expensive but far durable design in the first place. I see a clear pattern of incompetent penny pinching, and the handguard situation is one of them.

by78 said:

The military is subordinate to the civilian authority at all times, especially during peacetime. It's one piece of the puzzle, a component of the whole. The military doesn't exist in a vacuum. If it doesn't realize its decisions have consequences beyond their official purview, extending far beyond conflicts into post-war peacetime, then it's up to the civilian leadership to give the military leadership an attitude adjustment.

But we're off-topic now. Anyway, more urgent than new handguards is the situation with the new combat boots. The bean counters had decided to save a few yuan by using zippers. Could you believe that? Zippers on combat boots, which cause them to fall apart after just a few months! There is a clear pattern of incompetent penny pinching here, and the handguard situation is one of them.

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Well that's up to politicians to make that decision then, not bean counters.

And yes, I saw some examples of boots delaminating or bursting a few months ago on Weibo. Everyday gear is definitely a much bigger deal than rifles, and not defensible on any grounds. At least the problem has revealed itself in peacetime.

Wrought said:

Well that's up to politicians to make that decision then, not bean counters.

And yes, I saw some examples of boots delaminating or bursting a few months ago on Weibo. Everyday gear is definitely a much bigger deal than rifles, and not defensible on any grounds. At least the problem has revealed itself in peacetime.

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A rifle is everyday gear too. Unfortunately, the problem with the polymer rail isn't as easily revealed in peacetime.

by78 said:

A rifle is everyday gear too. Unfortunately, the problem with the polymer rail isn't as easily revealed in peacetime.

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Some soldiers use rifles at some times every day, but every soldier uses boots at all times every day.

Also, the boots are simply not functional. A rifle with a misaligned rail will at least still discharge.

Wrought said:

Some soldiers use rifles at some times every day, but every soldier uses boots at all times every day.

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To be clear, being barefoot in a gun fight is not as big of a problem as your sight/LAM not holding zero because your polymer rail deformed from long-term use or barrel heat.

by78 said:

To be clear, being barefoot in a gun fight is not as big of a problem as your sight/LAM not holding zero because your polymer rail deformed from long-term use or barrel heat.

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Without boots, you won't be in the gunfight at all. You'll be sitting ten km back, bandaging your feet.

Wrought said:

Without boots, you won't be in the gunfight at all. You'll be sitting ten km back, bandaging your feet.

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Gotcha, rifles are optional.