Minor, but the Red Army has been defunct for 30 years now.
QBZ-191 service rifle family
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
Minor, but the Red Army has been defunct for 30 years now.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
More than technically though some of its equipment still seems in use.
what best feature would that be?, please elaborate. I think 'rock 'n lock' is a better system than AR style mag well insertion. Just my opinion of course, but there's a reason why the AK platform, to the HK G36 to the QBZ utilizes the rock n' lock and paddle release right? Have you heard about the over insertion problems with the new SIG Spear?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The AR magazine system is the best feature. Feel free to disagree. However based on the adoption and users it seems the vast majority of 5.56 NATO users agree.
No the G36 doesn’t use the rock and lock. It has a magazine well. The magazine is inserted directly up like an AR. it’s just the latch is using a lever as opposed to a Button. Well the two types are not compatible HK did design and offer a different magazine well module to swap in.
HK went with the G36 magazine in part copying what was on both the Sig 550 and Styer AUG. as they wanted polymer for weight, to allow an easy round count, to Jungle mount additional magazines, and at the time the Aluminum magazine type standard for the AR type was troubled. HK among others would offer Steel magazines built to STANAG spec on many of their rifles that was 1996. Today Germany has begun replacing its G36 with HK416 and limited numbers of HK433 and 437s both use AR style drop free magazine releases based on the AR15 design. The intervening almost 3 decades more modern polymer magazines and better springs, followers have corrected the AR magazine issues meaning that they are more reliable than ever.
Next I know Brandon Herrera had such an issue with his Sig SPEAR in .308 and there were other problems. Those issues appear to have been early production runs. Thats kinda why the process takes a while issues get ironed. If course the Internet is like your haunted regretful memories at 3 am…
Which honestly they can redesign by themselves
I disagree. Rock in mags give a positive response to correct insertion, where for a slide in sometimes have over insertion problems. They also tend to be more natively ambidextrous than push in mags
The primary advantage of the slide in thus far is currently in manufacturing. An aluminum STANAG magazine is effectively two pieces, and the lock system for it is a simple notch in the mag. Comparatively a Kalash mag is multiple pieces including foraging. Now with polymer magazine this advantage is less relevant than it use to be, but i still think it should be lowest common denominator when it comes to mass produced items like magazines and ammos.
The proliferation of STANAG should be seen as well, a sign of STANAG (standardization) rather than any peculiar positive aspect of the magazine.
Herrera reviewed the type 81 and completely forgot about the mag hold open despite commenting on the magazine. He also failed to mention the solid rear sight trunnion. He markets himself as the AK guy but doesn't notice these things, so i don't take his reviews seriously.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Fell free yet I reserve the right to disagree with you. The thing is over insertion is fairly rare and can be corrected out by design and training.
The reason I feel the AR system is superior is the ease of loading. The magazine well is a funnel. It leads the magazine into home. The Rock and lock requires a fine understanding of where the well is and to establish the hook and axis of rotation. Although a trained soldier can rapidly force the ejection of a spent AK magazine the drop free of an AR is exceptional fast. Push button and as long as everything is in good condition it drops.
In metal you have multiple parts on an AR magazine it may seem like two parts but it’s actually 4 two stamped shells welded together the spring and follower.
Also France, Germany and Belgium as well as the UK used Steel versions of the magazine not aluminum. This was done because of the way Aluminum deformed. The AR magazine was originally supposed to be a disposable 20 round aluminum type but Colt extended it into the 30 round adding the dog leg. This however wasn’t perfect and created a pinch point. This was made worse as aluminum has elastic deformation. Once deformed that deformation is permanent. It may be temporarily deformed back but the second weight is applied the deformation returns. Steel doesn’t deform that way but it’s heavier.
Polymer has been around for decades and has been looked at for an alternative magazine material but it’s got it’s issues particularly as solvents used in cleaning and maintenance of a gun caused older magazines to melt.
Which is a pretty questionable position as the STANAG is only the set of dimensions. Farther it was never actually adopted. STANAG 4179 is a draft not ratified which is Why Germany, Spain and Austria had no problem issuing rifles that didn’t use it. Heck even being in NATO doesn’t dictate that you have to comply or can’t issue or use systems that aren’t used by other states.
HK could have put the G36 magazine in the HK433 if they so chose. HK didn’t even us STANAG on its own rifles until after they came into to the British L85A2. It was then they developed their steel magazine which they then used on the HK416.
Hell the XM8 was a G36 magazine not an AR15. The argument that we should “ignore any positive aspect” I think falls flat as you also ignore the negative.
Prior to the turn of the 2010s many makers had no issue not using Stanag on new rifles. Despite its well established nature. Once the PMAG and a new generation of highly reliable STANAG compliant magazines appeared.
The reason I point to him is he is the most visible case of the Over Insertion on the Sig Spear (which by the way is an SR25 magazine because the 6.8x51mm is way outside the AR15 magazine envelope) . The case that gets quoted the most on the internet. The Spear he had at the time was an early batch of civilian “unobtanium” a $5,000 rifle in 7.62x51mm the magazine he used was a .308 PMAG. Since then Sig has made changes to the rifle and Magpul has a 6.8x51mm PMAG.
MwRYum
Major
Please tell me that guy didn't embarrassed himself and the outfit by mounting the EOTech sight backwards...