QBZ-191 service rifle family

Blitzo

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A picture where I try to scale the long and short barrels as closely together as I can.
Funnily enough the pictures I posted on twitter with the pic viewer seems to somehow manage to scale them automatically very closely, which is why you see the arrows there

scaled.jpg
 

Blitzo

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A picture where I try to scale the long and short barrels as closely together as I can.
Funnily enough the pictures I posted on twitter with the pic viewer seems to somehow manage to scale them automatically very closely, which is why you see the arrows there

View attachment 54374

Hmmm actually is it just me or are the rifles shown at the parade (as well as a few other pictures), seem to be a little longer than the short barrel in that picture (the last one in this post) -- yet still shorter than the long barrel rifle?

If we look at how far the barrel extends from the handguard on the parade rifle vs the long barrel vs the "short" barrel, the short barrel seems to be noticeably shorter than the parade rifle?



Parade rifle length:
new rifle all hq.jpg new rifle more.jpg two small.jpg







Long/infantry rifle length:
new rifle more 1.jpg

long barrel.jpg



"Short" length (which looks longer than parade rifle length but shorter than the infantry length??):

short barrel.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Looking at the new rifle, it looks like the barrel length should be about 10 inches and 14 inches for the carbine and the infantry/assault rifle variants, which would correspond reasonably well with the M4 and CQBR in the US and with similar assault rifles and short variants in other nations.

I wonder if it might have been worth going to a 16 inch barrel as the standard assault rifle variant instead, but it seems like they might be going with the ~14 inch barrel instead. That said it's early days and as Josh kindly pointed out, so far the parade has only shown the short version so far.

historically the first and second widespread Practical Assault rifles the STG44 and AK47 used 16.3-16.5 inch barrels.
The AR15 when it emerged started the 20
Inch barrel. But it also started the 14.5 inch barrel length with the CAR15 Commando. Although it’s listed with a 10.5 inch barrel in practice that was rather loud and flashy so they added a sound moderator break that was 4 inches long.
Later 5.56x45mm rifles would try barrel lengths from 20-12.5 inches to as short as 7 inches. But this tends to cause issues of , reliability, heat, sound and muzzle flash.
The US would trial a 16 inch barreled carbine of the M16A2 but didn’t go with it instead starting the M4. The length of barrel chosen as it was the shortest length they could mount a bayonet on, but it also allowed better reliability and flash control. That said a 11.5 inch barreled M4A1 has been adopted but is more or less treated as a specialist weapon. Germany would adopt the G36 around the same time as the QBZ95. G36 also has a 18.9 inch barrel however they would also issue the G36K with a 12.5 inch barrel. the Israelis who adopted the M16 almost by accident of history would
Over the decades rebuild M16s given them to 12.5 inch. They would later carry this over to the X95.

In Soviet Union of Socialist Republics barrel lengths trialed them...
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They trailed DMR Aks with longer barrel lengths. they didn’t adopt it the Iraqis would though. Besides the Soviet SKS is already a 20 inch semiauto 7.62x39mm DMR rifle.
Although they would adopt the RPK which is very similar as a LMG they wouldn’t as a DMR deciding that the Dragonov with a higher caliber round was superior.
After adopting the AK74 they also adopted a short barreled carbine the AKS74U. It has a 9” barrel but guess what problems it had?
Heat, reliability, excessive muzzle flash and sound.
So around the mid 1990’s early 2000s the Russians adopted the AK74M as part of that they adopted the AK105 with a 12.4 inch barrel.

the QBZ95 as we know has the long barrel but the QBZ95B has had a 14.5” barrel from day one. So we know they have been looking at a length that short before.
Using @josh Luo’s Bullets as a Ruler I think now it’s a 14.5 inch barrel for the infantry rifle and a 12.5 inch for the compact carbine.
This is as the length of a 5.8x42mm round is 2.3 inches figure another round between the chamber and the muzzle break in length and we get 14.5 for the infantry version and 12.5 for the compact.
A picture where I try to scale the long and short barrels as closely together as I can.
Funnily enough the pictures I posted on twitter with the pic viewer seems to somehow manage to scale them automatically very closely, which is why you see the arrows there

View attachment 54374
Shorter lengths in this class has produced issues. That may only be 2 inches shorter but that’s about the norm when compared to other rifles. The 16.5 inch barrel vs 14.5 inch in terms of ballistics depends on the round but is really marginal in the case of intermediate caliber rounds. An 18 inch would fit for longer lengths but let’s take a moment and look at three factors. One where they have their field experience and having studied the west in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where although M4 as been felt to come up short it’s convenient size and length have even meant that US Socom guys have ditched SCAR for M4A1.
The peacekeeper missions and infantry fighting we have seen in the last decade push more and more mechanized infantry that pushes for shorter barrel length.
Next the two precedents with the QBZ95B model and the CS/LR17. When we look at the later we see that 14.5-16.3 inch range as the “Battle rifle”. Although this is clearly not the CS/LR17, some of the same ideas should have carried over. I expect as this matures we will see members of this family built primarily around these two with the 14.5 as the infantry standard issue and 12.5 for vehicle crews perhaps infantry squad leaders. With the longer as a Squad DMR? Its possible that they are still experimenting with a longer barreled version. That leaves us to the two question marks.
  1. LMG a QBB191 or a proper LMG?
  2. QBZ191C? A very compact PDW version for special needs?
 

Blitzo

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.... Okay, looking at all the pictures closely, it seems like the picture of the short barrel and long barrel taken on the wooden floor both look like they're a bit shorter in length than their counterparts taken in other pictures.
I wonder if the rifles taken on the wooden floor may have been earlier prototypes -- they seem to lack the rear fixed back up iron sight for one.


"Short" rifle (floor) vs short/parade rifle:

"Short" rifle on floor, note length of gun barrel and gas port extension from handguard. Note the rear back up iron sight is not fixed, but is removable on the rail.
short barrel.jpg


The parade/short barrel gun, note the degree of extension of barrel and gas port extension from the handguard being longer than the "short" gun taken on the floor. Note the rear back up iron sight is now fixed.
new rifle more.jpg
new rifle all hq.jpg



"Long" rifle (floor) vs long rifle:
"Long" rifle on floor, again note length of gun barrel and gas port extension from handguard. Again note that the rear back up iron sight is removable.
long barrel.jpg


Vs what is obviously also a long barrel gun, but where the gun barrel and gas port extend out more from the handguard. Again note the rear back up iron sight is fixed.

new rifle more 1.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Hmm I see what you are saying and the new waffle magazine to. The floor photos are clearly those from the legacy QBZ95/QBZ03 where these new ones are more like a PMAG.
I also find the lack of markings on the selector odd.
 

Blitzo

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Ok I think I got it now.

So I think the rifle has an "early" vs "final" for both the short and long version.

The "final" versions of both rifles feature:
1. fixed rear back up sight
2. two exposed vents on the handguard
3. longer barrel and gas block, which extends out further from the handguard

The "early" versions of both rifles (pictures taken from the wooden floor) feature:
1. removable rear back up sight
2. three exposed vents on the handguard
3. shorter barrel and gas block, which extends out further from the handguard.


We know the "final" version is final because that is the configuration of the rifles we saw on parade

For the barrel length -- it means that the "final" short barrel has a slightly longer barrel length than the "early" short barrel; and that the "final" long barrel has a slightly longer barrel length than the "early" long barrel.

Pics below, everything scaled according to handguards.
The handguard lengths on all of the rifles are the same regardless of whether they're short or long or early or final -- they all have fourteen equally separated grooves from each other, and as we can see it matches up.





true vs early long compare.jpg

true vs early short compare.jpg


true vs early short compare - Copy.jpg
 

by78

General
There are two other minor visual differences in the pre-final version. Not gonna waste words describing them, much better to use arrows. Focus on the spots/areas highlighted by the arrows and compare them with the final version of the rifle.

48830743116_cf4a53769a_o.jpg
 

AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is it just me, or do the pre-production ones appear to have a higher quality build and finish than the production ones?
 
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