QBZ-191 service rifle family

TerraN_EmpirE said:

I suspect the 400m range is based off estimates from the legacy QBZ95. That’s why I gave a range. The QBZ95 was officially listed at an effective range of 400m with the QBZ95B of 300m. Optics would probably improve that if of quality and with training out to 500m and 400m respectively assuming ammo makes up for velocity lost by shorter barrel.
Truth is the number is based on doctrine more than anything else. Put a great shooter with even irons behind an M4A1. A guy who knows his dope by heart. He can hit targets at 800m.
I suspect the same would be true for the QBZ191. It’s kinda like EPA estimates on a car. In the right circumstances you are going to get better than estimates in others worse. The question is is the estimate more optimistic or conservative. 400-500 meters is basically where it should sit assuming trained infantry and not a Captain China super soldier.

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Do we have official info listing an effective range of 400m for the QBZ95? I admit I didn't keep track of it that closely, but 400m for 95 seems just to be the uncited number on wikipedia. I'm not sure if official manufacturer or PLA disclosures have given us 400m.

Note, I'm not saying 400m is impossible for either 95 or 191, just that the question about them being 400m vs 500m for M4A1, if they're interpreted as effective range under "equal conditions" is a fair one to ask given the relatively similar parameters of the respective weapons (intermediate caliber, similar barrel lengths for 191 rifle vs M4 etc).

I suspect that a 400-500m effective "normal" range for these rifles would all be close to the truth.

My source was which claims to have sourced an official PLA document.
Wiki has its issues but it at least will cite.
The Wiki QBZ95 article links back to a few including blogs like modern firearms and well us. Our old mother blog.
Which lists 400m.
Stuff from the period of that systems introduction says 400m. Like this reprint of a 02 article
Which remember Gen 1 QBZ95 lighter ammo as the PLA hadn’t tried to standardize between the heavier iteration of the 5.8x45mm for the QBB 95 QBU 88 and QJY 88 and the lighter for the rifle iterations.
So a bit of a logical assumption seems to be taking place. If the accepted QBZ95 specs are 400m and QBz191 fires similar ammo.

I say 400-500m as that’s the range I expect from any rifle in the modern assault rifle class. Ak12, M4A1, G36K, L85, Type 20, QBz191, HK416, AUG, FN2000, X95, VHS, whatever if it’s in a 5-6mm class intermediary caliber I expect that performance as a mean. That means with an optic I expect a fair shooter in good conditions to be able to take an AKS74 and put a grouping roughly the size of my hat size into a target the size of a human torso at 400-500m in single shot as a bare minimum.
The M4 effective range estimate is based on single shot point targets basically what I just described above. The area effect is stated at 800m. Which is to say a shooter who knows his weapon is able to within a few meters (barn door) drop rounds on top of a square area. With single aimed shots. but in burst fire I have seen a 400m effective range. Meaning a soldier with the fun switch on, using controlled bursts or in rapid strings on semiautomatic is able to with dedication and discipline create a grouping roughly man torso sized in a box the size of a door.
The Wiki number or other sources just say “Maximum effective range” not rapid fire or single shot. Not vs a man target or a barn. With what kind of ammo or an optic? Not stated. Because Wiki, Modern firearms and even our old mother blog ( rest her soul ) is meant to give an overview of a topic and not a detailed point by point technical manual. It lacks finesse. Its reader’s digest or the movie version not ever volume of JRR Tolkien.
Hell some even say that because of the limitations of the ammunition the 500m effective range estimate on M4 is optimistic.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

My source was

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which claims to have sourced an official PLA document.
Wiki has its issues but it at least will cite.
The Wiki QBZ95 article links back to a few including blogs like modern firearms and well us. Our old mother blog.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Which lists 400m.
Stuff from the period of that systems introduction says 400m. Like this reprint of a 02 article

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Which remember Gen 1 QBZ95 lighter ammo as the PLA hadn’t tried to standardize between the heavier iteration of the 5.8x45mm for the QBB 95 QBU 88 and QJY 88 and the lighter for the rifle iterations.
So a bit of a logical assumption seems to be taking place. If the accepted QBZ95 specs are 400m and QBz191 fires similar ammo.

I say 400-500m as that’s the range I expect from any rifle in the modern assault rifle class. Ak12, M4A1, G36K, L85, Type 20, QBz191, HK416, AUG, FN2000, X95, VHS, whatever if it’s in a 5-6mm class intermediary caliber I expect that performance as a mean. That means with an optic I expect a fair shooter in good conditions to be able to take an AKS74 and put a grouping roughly the size of my hat size into a target the size of a human torso at 400-500m in single shot as a bare minimum.
The M4 effective range estimate is based on single shot point targets basically what I just described above. The area effect is stated at 800m. Which is to say a shooter who knows his weapon is able to within a few meters (barn door) drop rounds on top of a square area. With single aimed shots. but in burst fire I have seen a 400m effective range. Meaning a soldier with the fun switch on, using controlled bursts or in rapid strings on semiautomatic is able to with dedication and discipline create a grouping roughly man torso sized in a box the size of a door.
The Wiki number or other sources just say “Maximum effective range” not rapid fire or single shot. Not vs a man target or a barn. With what kind of ammo or an optic? Not stated. Because Wiki, Modern firearms and even our old mother blog ( rest her soul ) is meant to give an overview of a topic and not a detailed point by point technical manual. It lacks finesse. Its reader’s digest or the movie version not ever volume of JRR Tolkien.
Hell some even say that because of the limitations of the ammunition the 500m effective range estimate on M4 is optimistic.

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None of this contradicts what I wrote in my previous post, and if anything seems to support my sentiments?

That’s been my point all along really. We have estimates. But those don’t mean much without context. Even the context doesn’t mean much . Just numbers on a list.

Course familiarization.

Ballistic wise DBP10 from 18" is better than M855 from 20". That is with a 42k psi for DBP10 and 52k psi for M855. M855 have 500J@500m while DBP10 have 500J@650m

Does the rifle have a free floating barrel?

sndef888 said:

Does the rifle have a free floating barrel?

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The standard variant does not (rifle/carbine).

The DMR likely does.

More screen grabs.

Is free floating more costly?