PresentDangerChina.org take on US-China relationship

Ultra said:

I think you guys still don't get it.
TRUMP IS GOING TO MAKE CHINA SUBMIT LIKE A SLAVE OR ELSE. ELSE MEANS TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF CHINA.

You guys still dreaming there is trade or peace to be had. Trump is bringing more and more arsenals to the table while China is dreaming peace can be had

UNPREPARED.

That's why Trump is so confident it can make China submit to him.

There are of course weapons in Chinese arsenals in this trade war but China is not willing to use it or only half-ass used it which gave American time to prepare for it.
Such as complete and total export ban of rare earth minerals to US AND its trading partners (allowing trading partners is just giving it a back channel access). This will completely cripple US defence and high tech sector for couple of years and the shock of it will reverberate for a decade. But once this weapon is used, US will move to mine its rare earth, and/or move away from rare earth elements in its tech equipments. The pain will be felt and it will take 5-10 years for US to adjust.

But China is not going down that road. Because it is unprepared of going down that road.

The other one is the well known US treasury holding - but that one has limited effect as US and US allies can absorb the flood of it to keep it from having damaging effect on US economy. In fact if China do use that its a blessing in disguise for US as they get to buy back their own debt for the cheap while China effectively absorbing the US loss.

So now I am curious, just what's left for China to fight this so called trade war?
I willing to bet that Chinese leadership like most of its population are still dreaming - DREAMING they can wait out Trump - that Trump will lose the next election.
This is the hallmark of someone who is completely unprepared, on the losing side of the battle and still dreaming opponent will lose by accident. China never planned for worst case scenerios and now worst case senerios are happening to China.

What's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat? US is currently at its lowest unemployment rate in decades and markets seems to be going great. As unappetising as Trump is to majority of the US population, but when push comes to shove people will elect a leader that delivers on economy.

So what's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat?

Is China even prepared for a hot war?

You can tell China is ill-prepared for it because China is still on this so called "Minimum Deterance" doctrine with "No first strike" policy.
I have been saying for YEARS NOW - with such small nuclear arsenals that can reach US - US is NOT THREATEN to the least. Sub 100 ICBM means China has ZERO CHANCE to penetrate the hundreds of layers of US ballistic missile defence while US with THOUSANDS of nukes can annhilate China. Is China prepared for it?
Back in the cold war days - when US discovered the soviets has ICBM, the US immediately started its own ICBM development and production to reach parity. On the other hand the soviet also tried to reach parity with US on number of nukes. The fight never really happen and both sides prepared for worst case scenerios.

I think China should realize this, stop dreaming. Start preparing. Without "backup plans" China is just a walking dead.

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Ultra said:

I think you guys still don't get it.
TRUMP IS GOING TO MAKE CHINA SUBMIT LIKE A SLAVE OR ELSE. ELSE MEANS TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF CHINA.

You guys still dreaming there is trade or peace to be had. Trump is bringing more and more arsenals to the table while China is dreaming peace can be had

UNPREPARED.

That's why Trump is so confident it can make China submit to him.

There are of course weapons in Chinese arsenals in this trade war but China is not willing to use it or only half-ass used it which gave American time to prepare for it.
Such as complete and total export ban of rare earth minerals to US AND its trading partners (allowing trading partners is just giving it a back channel access). This will completely cripple US defence and high tech sector for couple of years and the shock of it will reverberate for a decade. But once this weapon is used, US will move to mine its rare earth, and/or move away from rare earth elements in its tech equipments. The pain will be felt and it will take 5-10 years for US to adjust.

But China is not going down that road. Because it is unprepared of going down that road.

The other one is the well known US treasury holding - but that one has limited effect as US and US allies can absorb the flood of it to keep it from having damaging effect on US economy. In fact if China do use that its a blessing in disguise for US as they get to buy back their own debt for the cheap while China effectively absorbing the US loss.

So now I am curious, just what's left for China to fight this so called trade war?
I willing to bet that Chinese leadership like most of its population are still dreaming - DREAMING they can wait out Trump - that Trump will lose the next election.
This is the hallmark of someone who is completely unprepared, on the losing side of the battle and still dreaming opponent will lose by accident. China never planned for worst case scenerios and now worst case senerios are happening to China.

What's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat? US is currently at its lowest unemployment rate in decades and markets seems to be going great. As unappetising as Trump is to majority of the US population, but when push comes to shove people will elect a leader that delivers on economy.

So what's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat?

Is China even prepared for a hot war?

You can tell China is ill-prepared for it because China is still on this so called "Minimum Deterance" doctrine with "No first strike" policy.
I have been saying for YEARS NOW - with such small nuclear arsenals that can reach US - US is NOT THREATEN to the least. Sub 100 ICBM means China has ZERO CHANCE to penetrate the hundreds of layers of US ballistic missile defence while US with THOUSANDS of nukes can annhilate China. Is China prepared for it?
Back in the cold war days - when US discovered the soviets has ICBM, the US immediately started its own ICBM development and production to reach parity. On the other hand the soviet also tried to reach parity with US on number of nukes. The fight never really happen and both sides prepared for worst case scenerios.

I think China should realize this, stop dreaming. Start preparing. Without "backup plans" China is just a walking dead.

Click to expand...

Ultra said:

I think you guys still don't get it.
TRUMP IS GOING TO MAKE CHINA SUBMIT LIKE A SLAVE OR ELSE. ELSE MEANS TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF CHINA.

You guys still dreaming there is trade or peace to be had. Trump is bringing more and more arsenals to the table while China is dreaming peace can be had

UNPREPARED.

That's why Trump is so confident it can make China submit to him.

There are of course weapons in Chinese arsenals in this trade war but China is not willing to use it or only half-ass used it which gave American time to prepare for it.
Such as complete and total export ban of rare earth minerals to US AND its trading partners (allowing trading partners is just giving it a back channel access). This will completely cripple US defence and high tech sector for couple of years and the shock of it will reverberate for a decade. But once this weapon is used, US will move to mine its rare earth, and/or move away from rare earth elements in its tech equipments. The pain will be felt and it will take 5-10 years for US to adjust.

But China is not going down that road. Because it is unprepared of going down that road.

The other one is the well known US treasury holding - but that one has limited effect as US and US allies can absorb the flood of it to keep it from having damaging effect on US economy. In fact if China do use that its a blessing in disguise for US as they get to buy back their own debt for the cheap while China effectively absorbing the US loss.

So now I am curious, just what's left for China to fight this so called trade war?
I willing to bet that Chinese leadership like most of its population are still dreaming - DREAMING they can wait out Trump - that Trump will lose the next election.
This is the hallmark of someone who is completely unprepared, on the losing side of the battle and still dreaming opponent will lose by accident. China never planned for worst case scenerios and now worst case senerios are happening to China.

What's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat? US is currently at its lowest unemployment rate in decades and markets seems to be going great. As unappetising as Trump is to majority of the US population, but when push comes to shove people will elect a leader that delivers on economy.

So what's China going to do when Trump get re-elected and continue to turn up the heat?

Is China even prepared for a hot war?

You can tell China is ill-prepared for it because China is still on this so called "Minimum Deterance" doctrine with "No first strike" policy.
I have been saying for YEARS NOW - with such small nuclear arsenals that can reach US - US is NOT THREATEN to the least. Sub 100 ICBM means China has ZERO CHANCE to penetrate the hundreds of layers of US ballistic missile defence while US with THOUSANDS of nukes can annhilate China. Is China prepared for it?
Back in the cold war days - when US discovered the soviets has ICBM, the US immediately started its own ICBM development and production to reach parity. On the other hand the soviet also tried to reach parity with US on number of nukes. The fight never really happen and both sides prepared for worst case scenerios.

I think China should realize this, stop dreaming. Start preparing. Without "backup plans" China is just a walking dead.

Click to expand...

jimmyjames30x30 said:

I don't give a penny for what Bannon has to say, or what the majority of US voters feels. If It can happen, it will happen, what we Chinese needs to worry about, is how to fight the War (if you call it war) against the USA, not whether the US should or should not start a war with us. The only thing we need to fear is fear itself.

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Bob Smith said:

I give little credit to anything Bannon says. He is an attention whore that loves to broadcast to the world how tough he is. If he wanted to do the most damage, he wouldn't go on multiple networks to show to the world what he's planning, but instead, do so quietly.

Also, China's nuclear arsenal is a closely held secret. The 280 nuke count is an estimate by the West. They don't announce their number because they don't want to alarm India into producing more nukes. If push came to shove and there was the possibility of a hot war with the US, I'm certain China's nuke count shown to the world will be well above 280.

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tidalwave said:

The current banning of Huawei is very much Bannon previous planning.

He's the chief architect of Trump trade war plan.

Chinese has a saying, understand yourself and your enemy. You know what I mean?

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tidalwave said:

He's excited because Trump is executing the plan drawn up by him.

He has this I told you so excited feeling.

He would not be this excited if what Trump doing currently is Not related to him and his work.

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montyp165 said:

This anti-empiricism that these ideologues incorporate is exactly the reason why they have no real chance of winning, as it basically violates one of the most fundamental logical tenets that folks like Sun Tzu emphasised: to know thy self and thy enemy.

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tidalwave said:

That simply is not true.
alot of current US trade war plan executed is drawn up by this guy.

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tidalwave said:

I got what you mean.
Even though Bannon's preaching is totally radical and off the wall, contradictaory to common sense but he's architecture of populous nationalist movement that's sweeping through America,
He's out of control, that why john Kelly kicked him out of white house .
But his idea is very dangeous, and wide spreading.

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Gatekeeper said:

Scary times we are living in, almost like the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

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jimmyjames30x30 said:

One thing we Chinese have learned in our history is to appreciate your enemy/rival. We love to put ourselves in our enemy's/rival's shoes.

Bannon thinks the USA needs to kill Huawei? Well, that's a no brainer, If we were the Americans, we would try to do that.

Thus, it doesn't matter what Bannon says, because he will never be as bad as how we Chinese imagine our enemies to be. He lacks the patience and vigor to learn deeply about us, thus he will never have the proper imagination.

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jimmyjames30x30 said:

We understands full well what Bannon is and what he stands for. He doesn't understand us.

The motives behind the kind of thoughts that You and @Ultra pushes forward is nothing but spreading fear. Your words only mystifies the power of terror the US possesses. This inflates the power the US, and erodes the confidence and resolve of the Chinese public. All of these is to achieve the goal of scaring the Chinese into accepting a back-breaking deal, or to jump the gun and act rashly. I repeat, these tricks are meaningless against a civilization with the size and depth of China.

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Ultra said:

It doesn't matter what you guys think or even Chinese leadership think if Trump or any of his cohorts of ANY American or western allies their behaviours are illogical, dumb or immoral - it really doesn't matter at all.

What matter is is China prepared for it?

What is China going to do when threat materialized? When bomb start falling what is China going to do? When companies are threatened and economy is on the verge of destruction WHAT IS CHINA GOING TO DO?

Chinese leadership doesn't seem to be prepared for anything. The opaqueness they projected and used as a shield is crumbling. All it shows is just how unprepared they are.
The african swine flu is out of control in China (it may even be the first salvo of PHYSICAL economic warfare) and now Chinese pork economy is wrecked and the need to import pork adds to the burden of already weaken chinese economy.

Do you think Chinese adminstration is even remotely prepared for MORE agricultural destruction? What's next? Chicken?? Rice??
This kind of thing never get to this level in the west - because the west is prepared. There are agencies on local and regional level, there are containment plans and agencies setup to deal with it. Companies that are fostered to develop and combat these threats. Little to no such thing in China. China is WIDE OPEN FOR ATTACK. Completely ill-prepared.

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(2018) And it remains to be the ONLY ONE. For country of China's size this is laughable. Even INDIA has 4.

Does China have containment plans for these threats? Are there agencies setup and empowered to stop these threats? Are there corporations fostered to develop and combat these threats? ITS BEEN 17 YEARS SINCE THE 2002 SARS OUTBREAK and it looks like China is still completely ill-prepared for this kind of threat. The SARS outbreak and the subsequent birdflu and N1H1 should have been the alarm bells for China. But China sadly is still not prepared to this day.

If Steve Bannon influence Trump to start deploying variety of bio-weapon(s) across China - do you think China is prepared? Or are they still going to argue pointlessly about how immoral, illogical it is to be used on China until all are dead?

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