franco-russe
Senior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
The art of counting submarines that only display their pennant numbers in port, and then only quai-side, is not of recent invention and I am cognizant of the difficulties involved.
What you say about GE applies equally to horizontal photography, and I have relied on neither to establish numbers.
But in the Chinese case, we are helped by all the information that can be picked up from Cyberspace, much of which is in fact accurate.
The only certainty seems to be that there are 12 KILO. Sure, with modern-day Russian openness we knew about the orders, the yard numbers (413, 414, 01616, 01327, 01329, 01330, 01331, 611, 01332, 701, 702, 01333) and they were delivered to China on heavy-lift ships. But while it is generally believed that their pennant numbers are 364-375, it was only a few days ago I actually saw one, namely 374 in Yulin.
I also think it well established that there are 16, distributed as described in Feng’s article on China’s conventional submarine fleet, with 8 in Daxiedao, 4 in Qingdao and 4 in Yulin.
It is also well established that submarines in built in series of 4, so as to have homogenous squadrons, and that a new type or version signals the beginning of a new series of 4. From that point of view, Feng’s belief that the modified YUAN is Hull 5 is entirely logical. It is either that or Hull 9.
For good measure I reproduce the Chinese text that mentions the new SSF submarine flotilla, allegedly 52. The fact that it relates the flotilla to the Taiwan Strait may point in the direction of Xiachuandao.
漏斗子：侃侃南海舰队
最近海外媒体报道，随着中国对南海战略价值的重视，新一轮海军部署调整已显端倪，海军重心正在向海南岛转移，核潜艇、新型导弹驱逐舰已在著名的海滩亚龙湾一带出现，那儿将成为中国的“关岛”。
正巧今天新华社也有一篇南海舰队的报道，说的是驱二支队荣辱观教育中感人事迹。
从这篇报道中可以看出，南海舰队自从组建第二个驱逐舰支队后，任务有了明确分工。驱逐舰二支队主要担负南海、台海南部的近海海域的防务，主要舰艇就是五艘 051型驱逐舰和十来艘053H护卫舰，最猛的就是一六七“深圳”舰了。虽说大部分舰艇比较旧，但对付南海周边国家应该差不多了，再说还有后援。目前在南沙岛礁一带巡逻、驻防的，就是有这个支队的护卫舰。新组的驱逐舰九支队一色新舰，目前是一六八—一七一四艘导弹驱逐舰，是海军最耀眼的明星支队，另外还拥有新型护卫舰的护卫舰大队。这个支队应该属于军委的战略机动力量，是要担当重任的，以后是赋予走蓝水任务的。
在常规潜艇方面，南海也新组了一个支队，现在也拥有两个常规潜艇支队。两个支队都有039型和035G型，三十二支队还有四艘Kilo型636。但两个支队主力潜艇相同，如何分工委实不明。将来可能是，三十二支队以国产039型和进口Kilo型为主，担负南海海域和突破岛链的防务，与部署在那里的核潜艇配合作战；新组五十二支队，以 035型和039型为主，主要负责近海和台海防务。
先侃的到这儿，接着侃核潜艇部署。
Also, as the photo of SONG 320 and YUAN’s in Daxiedao supposed to be in post # 628 cannot now be viewed, I would have attached it if I knew how to.
The art of counting submarines that only display their pennant numbers in port, and then only quai-side, is not of recent invention and I am cognizant of the difficulties involved.
What you say about GE applies equally to horizontal photography, and I have relied on neither to establish numbers.
But in the Chinese case, we are helped by all the information that can be picked up from Cyberspace, much of which is in fact accurate.
The only certainty seems to be that there are 12 KILO. Sure, with modern-day Russian openness we knew about the orders, the yard numbers (413, 414, 01616, 01327, 01329, 01330, 01331, 611, 01332, 701, 702, 01333) and they were delivered to China on heavy-lift ships. But while it is generally believed that their pennant numbers are 364-375, it was only a few days ago I actually saw one, namely 374 in Yulin.
I also think it well established that there are 16, distributed as described in Feng’s article on China’s conventional submarine fleet, with 8 in Daxiedao, 4 in Qingdao and 4 in Yulin.
It is also well established that submarines in built in series of 4, so as to have homogenous squadrons, and that a new type or version signals the beginning of a new series of 4. From that point of view, Feng’s belief that the modified YUAN is Hull 5 is entirely logical. It is either that or Hull 9.
For good measure I reproduce the Chinese text that mentions the new SSF submarine flotilla, allegedly 52. The fact that it relates the flotilla to the Taiwan Strait may point in the direction of Xiachuandao.
漏斗子：侃侃南海舰队
最近海外媒体报道，随着中国对南海战略价值的重视，新一轮海军部署调整已显端倪，海军重心正在向海南岛转移，核潜艇、新型导弹驱逐舰已在著名的海滩亚龙湾一带出现，那儿将成为中国的“关岛”。
正巧今天新华社也有一篇南海舰队的报道，说的是驱二支队荣辱观教育中感人事迹。
从这篇报道中可以看出，南海舰队自从组建第二个驱逐舰支队后，任务有了明确分工。驱逐舰二支队主要担负南海、台海南部的近海海域的防务，主要舰艇就是五艘 051型驱逐舰和十来艘053H护卫舰，最猛的就是一六七“深圳”舰了。虽说大部分舰艇比较旧，但对付南海周边国家应该差不多了，再说还有后援。目前在南沙岛礁一带巡逻、驻防的，就是有这个支队的护卫舰。新组的驱逐舰九支队一色新舰，目前是一六八—一七一四艘导弹驱逐舰，是海军最耀眼的明星支队，另外还拥有新型护卫舰的护卫舰大队。这个支队应该属于军委的战略机动力量，是要担当重任的，以后是赋予走蓝水任务的。
在常规潜艇方面，南海也新组了一个支队，现在也拥有两个常规潜艇支队。两个支队都有039型和035G型，三十二支队还有四艘Kilo型636。但两个支队主力潜艇相同，如何分工委实不明。将来可能是，三十二支队以国产039型和进口Kilo型为主，担负南海海域和突破岛链的防务，与部署在那里的核潜艇配合作战；新组五十二支队，以 035型和039型为主，主要负责近海和台海防务。
先侃的到这儿，接着侃核潜艇部署。
Also, as the photo of SONG 320 and YUAN’s in Daxiedao supposed to be in post # 628 cannot now be viewed, I would have attached it if I knew how to.
