Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
sure, but certainly not something as high profile as a nuclear submarine.
sure, but certainly not something as high profile as a nuclear submarine.
PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
The history of China's military industrial complex tells us otherwise. Things have certainly improved since the 80s and 90s, but that doesn't mean there still aren't entrenched interests protecting each other.
The history of China's military industrial complex tells us otherwise. Things have certainly improved since the 80s and 90s, but that doesn't mean there still aren't entrenched interests protecting each other.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
In order for the central authorities to issue an order, it must first know that there is a problem or a better alternative.
The issue is a lot deeper than just one company refusing to play nice, these are state enterprises with deep institutional connections.
The shipyard has friends and supporters in all the key technical evaluation committees that reports to Beijing. Its there that they kill off all serious competition by either shooting them down by specifically nit picking about reactor related issues they know no outside players have the answers to, or simply not even bringing in credible proposals to be discussed.
Short of building a nuclear sub yourself, you just can't get past that roadblock.
As for Dalian, well I think the number of ships the PLAN has on order with them speaks volumes of the faith the PLAN has in their abilities.
In order for the central authorities to issue an order, it must first know that there is a problem or a better alternative.
The issue is a lot deeper than just one company refusing to play nice, these are state enterprises with deep institutional connections.
The shipyard has friends and supporters in all the key technical evaluation committees that reports to Beijing. Its there that they kill off all serious competition by either shooting them down by specifically nit picking about reactor related issues they know no outside players have the answers to, or simply not even bringing in credible proposals to be discussed.
Short of building a nuclear sub yourself, you just can't get past that roadblock.
As for Dalian, well I think the number of ships the PLAN has on order with them speaks volumes of the faith the PLAN has in their abilities.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Based on what you say and know, how do you think that nuclear submarines type 095 and 096 will pan out? could they be failures? if so, will there be a backlash against huludao shipyard?
And why did they assign liaoning refit to dalian shipyard? because in 2001 dalian shipyard was better than it is today?
Based on what you say and know, how do you think that nuclear submarines type 095 and 096 will pan out? could they be failures? if so, will there be a backlash against huludao shipyard?
And why did they assign liaoning refit to dalian shipyard? because in 2001 dalian shipyard was better than it is today?
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
In the USN, the nuclear powerplant development was handled by the Navy and contracted designers, with the Navy at the forefront of the development process. As long as there are steam powerplant manufacturers in China (similar to GE or Westinghouse in the old days) the design of nuclear plants can be contracted out by the PLAN to others if the existing ones aren't doing their job right.
In the USN, the nuclear powerplant development was handled by the Navy and contracted designers, with the Navy at the forefront of the development process. As long as there are steam powerplant manufacturers in China (similar to GE or Westinghouse in the old days) the design of nuclear plants can be contracted out by the PLAN to others if the existing ones aren't doing their job right.
ladioussupp
Junior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
09IV and fishing boat
09IV and fishing boat
Equation
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
As long as the Chinese nuclear submarine programs are healthy they will eventually close the gap and even surpass the latest nuclear subs of today. Like I said, it'a all about the program. Like you pointed out before China has lots of talented designers, scientists, and engineers to make it happen, they just need proper leadership to bring more ingenious design concept into development and continue funding.
As long as the Chinese nuclear submarine programs are healthy they will eventually close the gap and even surpass the latest nuclear subs of today. Like I said, it'a all about the program. Like you pointed out before China has lots of talented designers, scientists, and engineers to make it happen, they just need proper leadership to bring more ingenious design concept into development and continue funding.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
An other matter is coming up - the development of thorium reactors. These will have civilian as well as naval applications. As China is much richer than when uranium reactors started development it must be possible to set up at least two development team for the naval applications, say two for submarines and one for surface vessels - flattops, cruisers, replenishment vessels ( ? ).
An other matter is coming up - the development of thorium reactors. These will have civilian as well as naval applications. As China is much richer than when uranium reactors started development it must be possible to set up at least two development team for the naval applications, say two for submarines and one for surface vessels - flattops, cruisers, replenishment vessels ( ? ).
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
IMO, I think we have putting to much blame on the shipyard, if we look at the civil nuclear sector as an indicator it is not hard to see why the shipyard are produce "obsolete" SSBN and SSN, it could be the case that at this stage we just can't produce a powerful enough power plant to power a bigger boat.
Anyway I am curious as to how sailors live on subs, conventional power subs mainly. I mean how do they shower, how do they wash cloths and how do they go to the bath room. It might sound silly but if you think about it it's quite interesting, take an example of going to the shower, water is precious especially on conventional subs but if you don't go to shower you will smell and in the long term there will be an increased chance of people catching diseases and in a confined space that is not good news. Therefore how many time do they go for shower each week, do the boat use filters or heat to generate water?
Last question is what are the chance of we see a convergence of SSN and SSBN. By this I mean countries will produce "SSBN" only, with two variant one carries 8 tubes serving as "SSN" and the other carries 16 tubes serving as deterrent. I can see many advantages and there seem to be a trend going in this direction.
IMO, I think we have putting to much blame on the shipyard, if we look at the civil nuclear sector as an indicator it is not hard to see why the shipyard are produce "obsolete" SSBN and SSN, it could be the case that at this stage we just can't produce a powerful enough power plant to power a bigger boat.
Anyway I am curious as to how sailors live on subs, conventional power subs mainly. I mean how do they shower, how do they wash cloths and how do they go to the bath room. It might sound silly but if you think about it it's quite interesting, take an example of going to the shower, water is precious especially on conventional subs but if you don't go to shower you will smell and in the long term there will be an increased chance of people catching diseases and in a confined space that is not good news. Therefore how many time do they go for shower each week, do the boat use filters or heat to generate water?
Last question is what are the chance of we see a convergence of SSN and SSBN. By this I mean countries will produce "SSBN" only, with two variant one carries 8 tubes serving as "SSN" and the other carries 16 tubes serving as deterrent. I can see many advantages and there seem to be a trend going in this direction.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Conventional submarines don't go on extended missions anymore, and are mostly operate in littoral waters.
A convergence is unlikely because ssbns and ssns have different requirements for speed, maneuverability, and noise.
Conventional submarines don't go on extended missions anymore, and are mostly operate in littoral waters.
A convergence is unlikely because ssbns and ssns have different requirements for speed, maneuverability, and noise.