PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Near as I can tell the Kalina is still just a paper project.
If the offer was real and official, it seems more like a fishing expedition by the Russians to try the get the Chinese to help finance the development of this proposed new class.
To be honest, I'm not too sure the Russians hold much, if any, lead on China when it comes to conventional AIP subs, and with the trend in new Russian defence projects recently, by the time the Kalina is operational, China will probably have a better indigenous equivalent, if it doesn't already.
Russian offering to share nuclear sub technology with China would be a huge deal, as I think that is an area where China currently desperately needs to reform as there is a lot of entrenched interests using the necessary secrecy and high security of such strategic assets to effectively monopolize the market and protect ineffective individuals and organisations from any sort of real competition. Thus this removes almost all pressure for them to get their act right, which is why China's nuclear subs are still such a weakness.
I know for a fact that China has world class engineers and designers who proposed cutting edge nuclear sub designs and concepts way back in the late 90s and early 2000s which are only just coming online in the latest US and European classes. Had their proposals been given serious consideration, Chinese SSNs and SSBNs are almost certain to be far better than what they are now, and may well have closed the gap with the most advanced American and European classes to a generation or less.
The current Chinese nuclear sub maker is very similar to SAC back in the 90s and shares most if not more ills. But unlike the aviation industry, China's nuclear sub section only has one player , so there was never any real way the anyone could force it to shape up or have a realistic alternative the PLAN could turn to.
Near as I can tell the Kalina is still just a paper project.
If the offer was real and official, it seems more like a fishing expedition by the Russians to try the get the Chinese to help finance the development of this proposed new class.
To be honest, I'm not too sure the Russians hold much, if any, lead on China when it comes to conventional AIP subs, and with the trend in new Russian defence projects recently, by the time the Kalina is operational, China will probably have a better indigenous equivalent, if it doesn't already.
Russian offering to share nuclear sub technology with China would be a huge deal, as I think that is an area where China currently desperately needs to reform as there is a lot of entrenched interests using the necessary secrecy and high security of such strategic assets to effectively monopolize the market and protect ineffective individuals and organisations from any sort of real competition. Thus this removes almost all pressure for them to get their act right, which is why China's nuclear subs are still such a weakness.
I know for a fact that China has world class engineers and designers who proposed cutting edge nuclear sub designs and concepts way back in the late 90s and early 2000s which are only just coming online in the latest US and European classes. Had their proposals been given serious consideration, Chinese SSNs and SSBNs are almost certain to be far better than what they are now, and may well have closed the gap with the most advanced American and European classes to a generation or less.
The current Chinese nuclear sub maker is very similar to SAC back in the 90s and shares most if not more ills. But unlike the aviation industry, China's nuclear sub section only has one player , so there was never any real way the anyone could force it to shape up or have a realistic alternative the PLAN could turn to.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Project 636 Varshavyanka-class is the latest Kilo derivative in production.
Lada was more or less still born. and Amur seems to have gone no where.
Want China times
Before them the Lada Class deal was tied with the Rumored SU35 Deal
It may be possible for the Russians and Chinese to Joint development of a new SSP type with features and mission specs suited to Littoral operations and combining the best of PLAN and Russian Navy tech perhaps targeted in the Type 216 scale. but that's still hypothetical.
Project 636 Varshavyanka-class is the latest Kilo derivative in production.
Lada was more or less still born. and Amur seems to have gone no where.
Want China times
Followed up with
Before them the Lada Class deal was tied with the Rumored SU35 Deal
It may be possible for the Russians and Chinese to Joint development of a new SSP type with features and mission specs suited to Littoral operations and combining the best of PLAN and Russian Navy tech perhaps targeted in the Type 216 scale. but that's still hypothetical.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
With their latest Yuan design that we saw last year, I see no reason for the Chinese to buy Russian AIP D/E submarines. They are building their own and do so capably. If Russia is having such troubles improving their conventional subs to a newer AIP D/E design, perhaps they should make a deal to buy some of the Chinese subs.
I would view as highly suspect in any case any report on such issues from WantChinaTimes or other such sources. Not that they should not be read, and considered, just that there particular bias in these matters is pretty well known.
I agree with wolf here.
With their latest Yuan design that we saw last year, I see no reason for the Chinese to buy Russian AIP D/E submarines. They are building their own and do so capably. If Russia is having such troubles improving their conventional subs to a newer AIP D/E design, perhaps they should make a deal to buy some of the Chinese subs.
I would view as highly suspect in any case any report on such issues from WantChinaTimes or other such sources. Not that they should not be read, and considered, just that there particular bias in these matters is pretty well known.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
OT. Hehehe...Russian car design has come a long ways since the 70s and 80s!
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
I have doubts about what you say. No state organism can refuse an order from the government, specially a single-party state like china. The government knows what national security is and is not.
And out of curiosity, why do you have reservations about dalian shipyard management?
I have doubts about what you say. No state organism can refuse an order from the government, specially a single-party state like china. The government knows what national security is and is not.
And out of curiosity, why do you have reservations about dalian shipyard management?
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
The state isn't monolithic. When orders and punishments travel down a chain, things get lost or hidden in the process.
The state isn't monolithic. When orders and punishments travel down a chain, things get lost or hidden in the process.