PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

It seems that ocean going patrol is routine for them and I doubt 12 a year is a decent number for 6 SSN.

It depends on the length of the patrols, and on the type of nuclear sub. Attack or Ballistic Missile subs.

US ballistic missile patrols can be up to three months...so two patrols a year would put them to sea for half the year. That is not bad for such patrols. Attack sub patrols/missions can be longer, even 4-5 months.

12 patrols would say that on average, each boat was doing two patrols a year. If they are 90+ day patrols, then they are doing suprisingly well.

If they are shorter patrols, then they are still doing well given the age of some of the boats, and the fact that most of the boats are attack boats.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The documentary video never claimed PLAN SSN spent most of the time in East China Sea and yellow Sea. Do you based your conclusion on ONI report?

In fact, the PLAN submarine officer proudly declared to the reporter that PLAN SSN definitely attained Blue water capabilites when the reported try to double comfirm this point by asking him again. From the confident reply of the officer, It seems that ocean going patrol is routine for them and I doubt 12 a year is a decent number for 6 SSN.

This is not from the video but rather that posts from A.Man http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-submarines-thread-ii-159-3746.html#post251680

1985年11月20日-1986年2月18日，403艇进行了最大自持力考核试验，共90天，打破了美国潜艇“海神”号保持多年的 世界纪录（84天）。总指挥是核潜艇基地副司令员杨玺，艇长孙建国。在黄海、东海海域航程达23625海里 ，水下航行69天，航程18868海里，其中最长一次水下航行25天。

12 patrols a year would be a very impressive figure for 6 SSNs, If each patrols last for 30 days or longer and you go on 2 of them a year, when are these sailors going to see their family? Let's not forget that they have to join those routine exercises too. Also consider that not all of your submarines are going to be available at all time. They need go through your regular maintenance. I think some of the Songs probably went on patrols also.

IIRC, USN with its 50+ nuclear submarines only go on around 50 to 60 patrols a year. Jeff can correct me on this.

 

[Lion]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

This is not from the video but rather that posts from A.Man http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-submarines-thread-ii-159-3746.html#post251680

1985年11月20日-1986年2月18日，403艇进行了最大自持力考核试验，共90天，打破了美国潜艇“海神”号保持多年的 世界纪录（84天）。总指挥是核潜艇基地副司令员杨玺，艇长孙建国。在黄海、东海海域航程达23625海里 ，水下航行69天，航程18868海里，其中最长一次水下航行25天。

12 patrols a year would be a very impressive figure for 6 SSNs, If each patrols last for 30 days or longer and you go on 2 of them a year, when are these sailors going to see their family? Let's not forget that they have to join those routine exercises too. Also consider that not all of your submarines are going to be available at all time. They need go through your regular maintenance. I think some of the Songs probably went on patrols also.

IIRC, USN with its 50+ nuclear submarines only go on around 50 to 60 patrols a year. Jeff can correct me on this.

Ok I am fine with this. How about your claim of PLAN SSN spend most of the time on East Sea and Yellow water? From video, the PLA analyst keep emphasize on Blue Ocean going capabilites and they proudly declare this capabilites is already long attained and they are confident of it, where is the proof PLAN SSN spend most time in littoral water?

I am interested to know where you got such information?

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Ok I am fine with this. How about your claim of PLAN SSN spend most of the time on East Sea and Yellow water? From video, the PLA analyst keep emphasize on Blue Ocean going capabilites and they proudly declare this capabilites is already long attained and they are confident of it, where is the proof PLAN SSN spend most time in littoral water?

I am interested to know where you got such information?

I guess you can't read Chinese?
1985年11月20日-1986年2月18日，403艇进行了最大自持力考核试验，共90天，打破了美国潜艇“海神”号保持多 年的 世界纪录（84天）。总指挥是核潜艇基地副司令员杨玺，艇长孙建国。在黄海、东海海域航程达2 3625海里 ，水下航行69天，航程18868海里，其中最长一次水下航行25天。
This says 403 spent 90s in long endurance testing. It traveled for 23625 nm in Yellow sea and East China Sea. It was under water for 69 days for 18868 nm. The longest duration it spent under water was 25 days.

Now, if your question is about how far 091/093 travel in recent years, that would be a different question. But that's because PLAN's mission profile has changed in the recent years and that also coincides with the increasing number of patrols they are conducting. I think it's implicit that when China is sending flotilla out that they would have escorting nuclear sub sometimes. And I don't think anyone is denying that.

so rather than jumping on and getting offended, let's try to figure out what our sources are telling us first.

 

[Lion]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I guess you can't read Chinese?
1985年11月20日-1986年2月18日，403艇进行了最大自持力考核试验，共90天，打破了美国潜艇“海神”号保持多 年的 世界纪录（84天）。总指挥是核潜艇基地副司令员杨玺，艇长孙建国。在黄海、东海海域航程达2 3625海里 ，水下航行69天，航程18868海里，其中最长一次水下航行25天。
This says 403 spent 90s in long endurance testing. It traveled for 23625 nm in Yellow sea and East China Sea. It was under water for 69 days for 18868 nm. The longest duration it spent under water was 25 days.

Now, if your question is about how far 091/093 travel in recent years, that would be a different question. But that's because PLAN's mission profile has changed in the recent years and that also coincides with the increasing number of patrols they are conducting. I think it's implicit that when China is sending flotilla out that they would have escorting nuclear sub sometimes. And I don't think anyone is denying that.

so rather than jumping on and getting offended, let's try to figure out what our sources are telling us first.

Thanks for the info. I do read Chinese. But you do admit from previous post, this is from a.man translation other than quote from video. I never read the translation and just watch the video. May I know the reliability of this loose translation? How did they get the info of the exact spot and distance travel for the voyage since the video never mention anything about it? I believe the video is more authentic since the reporter got all the relevant info from PLAN and report exactly what PLAN want the public to know.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

From the horses mouth All the naysayer are wrong . Hongjian just posted this The fanboy who quoted the ONI report is wrong also

PLA sub reports not a pot shot at Japan: Chinese admiral

Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo of the People's Liberation Army Navy told the People's Daily online, the website of the Chinese Communist Party newspaper, on Tuesday that the report of a Chinese nuclear-powered submarine base in Qingdao by China News Service had nothing to do with the military exercise launched by the Japanese Self-Defense Force.

Yin stated that the first nuclear-powered submarine force of China was established in the 1970s and designated as Unit Nine under the order of Chairman Mao Zedong. For the past 42 years, Yin said, Chinese nuclear-powered submarines have played a crucial role in defending China from foreign attacks with their powerful nuclear deterrent capabilities.

Despite the myriad of missions he claims the nuclear-powered submarines have undertaken, Yin said that no nuclear accident has ever occurred involving the PLA Navy. Yin also said the movements of Chinese submarines have not been detected by foreign nations during any of their patrol missions.

Since the announcement that an 18-day exercise will be held by the Japan Self-Defense Force between the regions of Okinawa and Kyushu, there has been speculation that Beijing was sending a warning to Tokyo by publishing pictures of its nuclear submarines at their base in Qingdao for the first time. Yin denied these claims and said now was a good time for the world to understand the history and development of the Chinese nuclear-powered submarine.

Yin did concede however that publishing the photos of the PLA North Sea Fleet's nuclear-powered submarine base sends a strong message to other countries that China is able to defend itself with its nuclear capability. That message is a warning to any country with ambitions of attacking China, Yin, said, not specifically Japan.

 

[Skywatcher]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

And how would they know they haven't been monitored, pray tell?

If the PLAN can't find say, a LA SSN, you can't take such an unconditional claim at face value?

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

And how would they know they haven't been monitored, pray tell?

If the PLAN can't find say, a LA SSN, you can't take such an unconditional claim at face value?

Because ONI report that said Chinese submarine rarely went on patrol ! So much for that BS

 

[pendragon]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

BTW Does China navy operate any midget submarines apart from the salvage models?
The shallow coastal waters of China would be ideal huntinggrounds for such vessels as are the waters around Paracel and Spratly islands

 

[Skywatcher]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Because ONI report that said Chinese submarine rarely went on patrol ! So much for that BS

You're not addressing the point that the PLAN can't find a USN SSN in the first place.

Taking the ONI public (do you think the ONI would actually report useful information in an unclassified document) report at face value is as reasonable as trusting the Russian arms exporters claims of the Su-35.

PS: Would you mind providing a link to that ONI report?