PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[Londo Molari]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Given that china is behind the west and is rapidly absorbing new technological know-how every day, it makes a lot more sense to keep building small numbers of newer and better platforms until you catch up to the cutting edge of technology.

Once they are caught up, then it will be logical to mass produce a design that is solid and will remain relevant for a long time to come.

It is already shifting to longer production blocks in those areas where it feels more experienced and "caught up" than subs, e.g. type 054A and J-10.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Given that china is behind the west and is rapidly absorbing new technological know-how every day, it makes a lot more sense to keep building small numbers of newer and better platforms until you catch up to the cutting edge of technology.

Once they are caught up, then it will be logical to mass produce a design that is solid and will remain relevant for a long time to come.

It is already shifting to longer production blocks in those areas where it feels more experienced and "caught up" than subs, e.g. type 054A and J-10.

It is very critical that they get their latest technology to sea in some numbers so they can develop their operation strategies and ensure that they work.

Their latest technologuies have mad significant advances, and in DDGs are approaching the ROW, perhaps outside the US AEGIS and European PAAMS/SAMPSON systems, their latest FFGs are also very strong, as are their new SSNs (probably on the order of LA class or maybe even ADCAP LA boats.

Getting a number of these built and operational allows them to test, prove, and perfect their planning, maintenance, logistics, and operations with very strong vessels to protect their interests. They then need to augment that with a separate, independent R&D effort that then feeds their production so they always keep the latest technology available as the older vessels approach the end of their operational life.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion and I believe the PLAN has reached a stage where they can do that, as opposed to one or two offing multiple desings that lead to extreme costs and inefficiencies.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

yep, totally agree with everything that Jeff said. As seen with USN building programs, having only 2 units cost a lot. The cost of building lead ships is often double the cost of building ships in serial production (that's not even including the maintenance cost). Of course, you have to find a balance between invest in new technologies and having quantity, but PLAN is at the stage where it will build more than 2 ships per class. Although, I do expect each batch of ships to be different. For example, I expect more than 4 054As, but I do expect this next batch to have modifications. We know even 171 has differences from 170.

 

[Delbert]

Old Submarines (Why?)

Can anybody here gives me an explanation why China was still using its Romeo and Ming class submarines.

I really get confused, I am wondering why China is still using some of those old subs, in fact if those cannot win if were used in modern warfare against the major naval powers.

If China wants to maintain significant numbers of submarines, for training, etc. I think it would be better if China will produce around 24-30 Song class submarine in replacement of those Romeo and Ming class submarines.

I do believe it would be better, since Song class submarines have reached the western standards. It means more effective and powerful on battle.

 

[Totoro]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

Romeo class is, as far as i know, out of combat rated service with the PLAN, there are just a couple of subs left used for training purposes. Ming is still in use in decent numbers but it is also fairly modernized and more capable than Romeos. Since the purpose of any chinese ssk sub fleet in current strategic situation would be to block the seaways - even old subs could be of use there. Plus the sheer numbers are always good to have, especially when the opponent is low on antisub systems. Worry not, in the next decade or so even the last Ming will probably be retired. One can produce only so many Yuans at a time.

 

[Delbert]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

Ah I see... Now I understand why those are still in operation.

Thanks

 

[Roger604]

Re: China's Needed submarine force (My own Suggestion)

I believe they probably do.

You can comfort yourself with wishful thinking only until you realize that the US didn't even know about the existence of the Yuan SSK until it was finished! Nor did the US know that 4-6 Type 093 and 4-6 Type 094 was already in the water until photos of multiple subs started popping up on Chinese military BBS's and Google Earth!

Now that the Yuan is being mass produced and rumors of Type 095's imminent sea testing is circulating, expect more surprises soon.

 

[kw64]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Is that another hull of Yuan up there? So three hulls so far?

 

[adeptitus]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

If China wants to maintain significant numbers of submarines, for training, etc. I think it would be better if China will produce around 24-30 Song class submarine in replacement of those Romeo and Ming class submarines.

I suspect the 12 x 039G1 is the serial production run for this model. The next one, will probably be an improved 039A "Yuan" class.

We should probably see most of the older Romeo and Ming class subs retired in near future.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: China's Needed submarine force (My own Suggestion)

You can comfort yourself with wishful thinking only until you realize that the US didn't even know about the existence of the Yuan SSK until it was finished! Nor did the US know that 4-6 Type 093 and 4-6 Type 094 was already in the water until photos of multiple subs started popping up on Chinese military BBS's and Google Earth!

Now that the Yuan is being mass produced and rumors of Type 095's imminent sea testing is circulating, expect more surprises soon.

What the US press reports and what the US Navy knows are not even close to the same things.

The Yaun went into the water and I will promise you that very soon thereafter there was an acoustic signature for that vessel class logged. Same is true for the nuc boats.

Believe me when I tell you that what surprises the press in the United States is not apt to be a surprise to the US Navy. They are actively using their assets, below surface, above surface, in the air, in space, in cyber space, and with good old fashioned mark 4 eyeballs to track these developments. If they are surprised by the launch of a boat from an enclosed yard (which is not apt to be a surprise because of the logistics chain necessary to build the boat), they will enure to asteric it and then nab its signature and characteristics as soon as it gets into the open water.

Anyhow...no disrespect meant. This is not an abnormal set of events...its been going on a long time and China, with its intelligence services in the various armed forces tries to ensure in the same ways that China is not surprised either.