PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[crobato]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

The Romeos are either out of service, or just used as training subs. The Mings, surprisingly, are all built post Cold War, so in terms of lifetime use, they're younger than many subs around the world with a more modern design.

The "old" subs are still dangerous because they can be used as mine layers.

As for the Songs, the latest ORBAT count seems to put 14 to 16 subs---two flotillas at the ESF, one at the NSF and one at the SSF, each flotilla with four subs.

 

[tphuang]

Re: China's Needed submarine force (My own Suggestion)

You can comfort yourself with wishful thinking only until you realize that the US didn't even know about the existence of the Yuan SSK until it was finished! Nor did the US know that 4-6 Type 093 and 4-6 Type 094 was already in the water until photos of multiple subs started popping up on Chinese military BBS's and Google Earth!

Now that the Yuan is being mass produced and rumors of Type 095's imminent sea testing is circulating, expect more surprises soon.

I'm sure there are several USN SSNs gathering the acoustic signatures of Chinese subs as soon as they enter service. Of course, that's unless the Chinese subs are so quiet that they can't track them, that will be a different story.

Anyhow, some new photos of Yuan. I'm not sure why the tiles are so light-reflective on this way. I remember having close up photos of previous 039s and don't remember seeing the tiles this clearly.

 

[RedMercury]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Or perhaps PLAN takes the first precaution that comes to my humble mind: mask the true signature with artificial noise until war-time.

 

[Pointblank]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Or perhaps PLAN takes the first precaution that comes to my humble mind: mask the true signature with artificial noise until war-time.

Highly impossible, as any good sonar operator and a good signal processor can filter out background or noise maskers.

 

[crobato]

Re: China's Needed submarine force (My own Suggestion)

I'm sure there are several USN SSNs gathering the acoustic signatures of Chinese subs as soon as they enter service. Of course, that's unless the Chinese subs are so quiet that they can't track them, that will be a different story.

Anyhow, some new photos of Yuan. I'm not sure why the tiles are so light-reflective on this way. I remember having close up photos of previous 039s and don't remember seeing the tiles this clearly.

Of course its only a matter of time before the signatures are gathered. Although there are ways to delay that, such as using noise generators on the subs to make a false signature, or not by running in quiet mode. But in peacetime that's what everyone does, gather signatures. I'm sure the PLAN is trying to do that on the USN and other navies, and likewise, others are doing that to the PLAN as well.

As for the tiles I think its just the day's lighting where there is direct overhead sunlight, as opposed to cloudy or sunsets we saw in other pictures.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Highly impossible, as any good sonar operator and a good signal processor can filter out background or noise maskers.

Its difficult to do in real time especially in littoral waters where you may have hundreds of noises and you need to figure it out in seconds, as opposed to open water, where you have a lot less signatures. This is actually a problem being studied. Furthermore, one has to take account of regional waters, thermal layers, currents, biologics etc,. Just because you maybe an expert doing this off the coast of California may not mean you would be an expert doing this off the coast of Hong Kong. The only way to learn is to go off the coast of Hong Kong and start doing it.

 

[Delbert]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

If it will be used to lay mines, wasn't the Song class submarine also capable of doing it?

Why use a weaker type if you had a better type right?

 

[crobato]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

No, but why waste a better type for what a weaker type can do. Save and use the better types for what the weaker types cannot do.

I am pondering whether to merge this thread with the main sub thread.

 

[Londo Molari]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

The impression I get is that submarines are a real pain in the ass, and even obsolete ones can be an unpleasant surprise unless you are on active alert and equiped with the best equipment. So it would make sense to keep them around to make up for the numerical imbalance in modern subs.

 

[Sczepan]

Re: Old Submarines (Why?)

Those old subs could be usefull in coast-defence, when a chinese air-shield protect them and the enemy can't use ASW.
They also could block enemys harbours if those harbours ar near the chinese coast and inside the chinese air-shield (you know - I'am thinkin about Taiwan for example).