PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[RedMercury]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Russians want to sell Kilos. PLAN decided on Yuan instead of Kilo. What more needs to be said.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Russians have claimed that the Chinese Yuan class is more expensive and far less capable than Kilo class. Is there any truth to such claim? I previously thought Yuan's overall capability should at least reach the standard of earlier versions of Kilo class.

Not at all. In fact, the Yuan should be superior even to the latest versions of the Kilo class. Three crucial factors.

The first is that the Yuan has flank sonars. The Kilo has none of that. This means that the Kilo's sonar does not have the field of view like the Yuan's. Being the largest sonars you can put on the boat, flank sonars are also the longest ranged ones. So you have both superior sonar range and field of view. The truth is, not many SSKs even have flank sonars, and this is considered a top flight item reserved for the very best.

In order to have flank sonars, the boat must have flow characteristics where the flow and flow noise won't interfere with the flank sonars. This is not true of the Kilo because the diving planes get in the way. That's why SSKs with flank sonars prefer to have their diving planes in the sail. Note the Kilo's follow on, the Amur/Lada class.

Large sonars need a lot of power to operate. That means a bigger sub that can hold a lot more battery power. Previously, flank sonars were the exclusive province of nuclear subs. For that to happen on an SSK, the SSK must be big enough to store more batteries. Note that SSKs with flank sonars, such as the Collins and Oyashio classes are pretty big for SSKs. The largest Amur is only 66m, the Kilo is about the same. The Collins is about 74m, the Oyashio is about 81m. The Yuan is about 78m. Note the Song is about 75m and that too has flank sonars.

A larger sub means it can be quieter, since the body can absorb more sound and more insulation can be put on it. Being quieter is also important for operating the large flank sonars on passive mode.

A sub with a more battery power also means longer endurance, and more juice to power more sophisticated electronic equipment like the command center and communications.

Not the least, the Yuan has Stirling AIP, the Kilo lacks any AIP.

I can't see any TAS on the Kilo, but lately a small TAS is being fitted on the Yuans' tails.

Also all these does mean the Yuan may be more expensive than the Kilo.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

This is an article on Yu-6 development success by 705 Institute

中国新一款重点型号鱼雷试射成功

据《科技日报》4月15日报道：4月初，我国某湖上试验场。 “发射！”随着命令发出，由中国船舶重工集团公司第七零五研究所研制的某型水下装备如蛟龙般直入水中，经科技人员跟踪分析，完全达到设计要求。

“成功了！我们成功了！”霎时，七零五所参试人员不约而同地欢呼起来。

是啊，他们有理由高兴和自豪，因为今年春天对七零五所来说，又是一个科技发展的春天：继国家重点科研项目获2007年度国家科技进步一等奖，某新型重大科研项目通过国家立项论证审查后，多个国家重点型号湖上试验获重大突破。这一个个重大突破，既标志着该所已经具备研制生产世界先进装备的能力，同时又是50 年来坚持技术创新、研制精良装备的一个缩影。

水下某装备是反映国家海防综合科技实力的重要标志之一。新中国成立初期，人民海军的自制水下某装备尚属空白，为建立强大的人民海军，加速装备现代化， 1958年4月，七零五所在美丽的黄浦江畔组建，开始了为海军现代化建设建功立业的光辉历程，从1963年起，根据需要又先后迁至扬州、洛阳、昆明、西安等地建址，现所部设在西安，在昆明和上海分别建有分部和技术工程部。

东、中、西部的四次创业，不仅磨炼了七零五所人的意志，而且逐步形成了该所“军民结合、三地协同”的发展之路。

作为我国水下某装备的摇篮，一个以军为本、军民结合，集科研、生产于一体的七零五所，承担着为海军研制生产现代装备的光荣而艰巨的任务。50年来，这个研究所从仿制、跟踪研制到自主创新，在加快研制生产水下某装备及相关产品等方面取得了骄人业绩。


1965年，七零五所研制成功我国第一代水下某装备，从此，中国不能生产该型装备的历史宣告结束。随后，广大科技人员加大创新力度，加快研制步伐，曾创造了我国该装备的多项第一，一次次把成功写在茫茫大海上。特别是近年来自主研发的新型产品，关键技术已达国际领先水平，实现了我国该装备关键技术的重大跨越，成为保卫祖国“蓝色国土”的利剑。50年来，七零五所先后获科技进步奖400多项，其中国家级科技进步奖120多项，两大国家重点型号连续两年获国家科技进步一等奖。2007年，该所被国家授予“重大贡献单位”光荣称号。

七零五所现有职工1400余人，其中研究员、高级工程师、工程师等科技人员1000余人，设有硕士、博士学位点和博士后工作站。全所研究领域涉及系统工程、信息工程、电子工程、机械工程、水声工程、流体力学、自动控制、惯性制导、精密仪器、光纤通信、液压技术、热电机技术、仿真技术、测试技术、可靠性技术等30多个学科、60余种专业，建有20多个技术先进、设备配套的大型实验室和一个国家级国防科技重点实验室，拥有3000多台、套国内外先进设备和仪器仪表，既满足了高性能水下武器装备研制的需求，又在国民经济建设中发挥着重大作用。

Basically, it goes through the history of 705 a little bit. Talking about Yu-6 (I guess) achieving all design requirements after the tests in 2007. For this, 705 received the level 1 technological advancement award. (this is pretty impressive)

 

[maozedong]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Submarine Base staff are loading Yu-6 torpedo into the Song class submarine.

 

[evereachyu]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Is This The Real Story? (By The Way, It Is A Very Good Story）

曾挑战“小鹰号”:潜艇32支队宋级成军(1)

南海挑战“小鹰号”航母的解放军潜艇32支队宋级成军！

南国大地，首屈一指的硬朗部队，应属海军第三十二潜艇支队属军委应急机动作战部队。该支队已连续五年被四总部评为全军军事训练一级单位，“五连冠”在海军是独一家。评上一次两次或许是照顾，但是连续五次考核过关，没有真功夫，同行就不会饶你。

南中国海的空中、水面、水下，哪一维都是是非之地，在093型核潜艇和052型驱逐舰担负战备值班之前，看家的还要* 三十二支。三十二支在2005年以前装备的是以第二代035型为主的常规潜艇，多年用下来，得心应手，故障率最低，各项成绩要超出039型。该支队拥有“潜深之王306艇”、“远航之王307艇”、“鱼攻王312艇”等王牌艇，以及海军“十佳舰艇长”陈强南等一批全海军叫得响的艇长、部门长。

可喜的是,近三年以来,32支队大量换装新型潜艇，目前约装备了4艘039+4艘基洛级，还有大约2艘元级，不算以前的035改，32支队单是新型潜艇就装备了10艘，将来元级可能还要加，未来至少12艘先进的“水下杀手”！这些“水下杀手”与三亚的093和094将组成中国海军未来航母编队的“水下狼群”，三亚将成为中国最大的航母特混编队基地！

南中国海是美军航母由印度洋驶往台海、倭国基地的必经之地。我军数套打航母的方案中，就有一套的战场在南海，主角当然是三十二支。有一次支队的三艇编队驶往南海东部海域练招数，练到第四天，指挥部来电，要求派一艘潜艇前往附近水域的郑和舰，配合舰上正在上的反潜课程。奉命前往的305艇在郑和舰一侧，作通气管航行、压水、下潜、模拟鱼攻等等，舰上学生则在教师指导下进行潜艇噪声及其它信号识别、对潜艇攻击操演等。就在操作课上得差不多舰与艇准备分别时，天空中出现了一架EA-6干扰机，后面还有两架SH-3H反潜机跟着赶来。这时305艇接到前方的潜艇来电，美国航母编队正驶来，目标难得，按四号预案演练。

此正合陈艇长之意，立刻命令下潜。声纳兵根据航母信号特征检索出这艘航母正是老冤家“小鹰号”，接着又报告还有四艘驱护舰和一艘补给舰，在八点钟方向，有一艘核潜艇以通气管状态追逐而来。305艇按预案转了一个弯，驶进美舰编队前方的核潜艇内侧、航母外侧的间隔水域，同向以蛇形航行。可能是美反潜机发现了编队另一侧的306艇，航母编队里的一艘护卫舰、一艘驱逐舰加速赶去驱逐306艇。在三艘舰艇赶上来为航母“清场”的同时，原来在侧后的舷号56的一艘提康德罗加级巡洋舰也不甘示弱，加速赶到前头追上郑和舰，与EA-6机配合，围着郑和舰空中海上大肆实施信号干扰，喇叭里还放着舰歌。

这时候的海上热闹非凡，双方都在借机练兵。郑和舰的甲板上，师生们正不受干扰的在上课；305艇凭着灵活与洛杉矶捉迷藏，你追过来我就转向外侧，你跟着下潜，我就上浮；306艇对着追来的两艘驱护舰，干脆掉转头与航母编队相向行，两架SH-3H忙得不亦乐乎，使劲找。这时候，“小鹰号”右后侧露出一大块空档，这场游戏的主角出场了----静候在水下的“深海之王”306艇在距航母两海里处浮出了水面，航母是贴着它身边过去的，却没有被发现！

尽管这只是和平时期的一场“游戏”，但游戏也有胜负。美军反应确实是快，不到一分钟，航母的各艘护航舰艇即刻停止了追逐不玩了，收缩编队驶向巴林塘海峡。说起来美军可能也有点懈怠，但是对常规潜艇打航母来的战法而言，却也提供了有益的启示。

最后要说明的是，这三位艇长既没立功也没受罚，但这场“游戏”成了训练课的教案。

2007年，小鹰号退役前大闹南海，欲偷窥中国东南和南海三军大演习，32支队奉命出击，与空中飞豹一起，三戏小鹰号，最后，本想偷窥完到香港风光的小鹰，不得不灰溜溜地逃到日本！

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If those pennants are correct (305 and 306) they would be Mings.

Anyway, 094 in Hainan.

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[evereachyu]

Two 094?

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[maozedong]

Re: Two 094?

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[qimg]http://military.china.com/zh_cn/top01/11053250/20080416/images/r_14789354_200804161347281641500.jpg[/qimg]

your link show nothing.

please try to look at this link:

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[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

latest picture to the third Yuan (from Wuhan shipyard), btw, it's interesting the new variant of Yuan is not visible anywhere. I kind of want to see its status.

 

[dlhh]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Not at all. In fact, the Yuan should be superior even to the latest versions of the Kilo class. Three crucial factors.

The first is that the Yuan has flank sonars. The Kilo has none of that. This means that the Kilo's sonar does not have the field of view like the Yuan's. Being the largest sonars you can put on the boat, flank sonars are also the longest ranged ones. So you have both superior sonar range and field of view. The truth is, not many SSKs even have flank sonars, and this is considered a top flight item reserved for the very best.

In order to have flank sonars, the boat must have flow characteristics where the flow and flow noise won't interfere with the flank sonars. This is not true of the Kilo because the diving planes get in the way. That's why SSKs with flank sonars prefer to have their diving planes in the sail. Note the Kilo's follow on, the Amur/Lada class.

Large sonars need a lot of power to operate. That means a bigger sub that can hold a lot more battery power. Previously, flank sonars were the exclusive province of nuclear subs. For that to happen on an SSK, the SSK must be big enough to store more batteries. Note that SSKs with flank sonars, such as the Collins and Oyashio classes are pretty big for SSKs. The largest Amur is only 66m, the Kilo is about the same. The Collins is about 74m, the Oyashio is about 81m. The Yuan is about 78m. Note the Song is about 75m and that too has flank sonars.

A larger sub means it can be quieter, since the body can absorb more sound and more insulation can be put on it. Being quieter is also important for operating the large flank sonars on passive mode.

A sub with a more battery power also means longer endurance, and more juice to power more sophisticated electronic equipment like the command center and communications.

Not the least, the Yuan has Stirling AIP, the Kilo lacks any AIP.

I can't see any TAS on the Kilo, but lately a small TAS is being fitted on the Yuans' tails.

Also all these does mean the Yuan may be more expensive than the Kilo.

Crobato,

Suprised to read that the Songs have Flank Array Sonar.

The images of PLA subs having flank array sonars is 3 white lines at the side of the subs. 091 - 094 images shows the lines.

I do not know about the latest Yuan subs but no Songs images have these painted lines nor have I read about any article saying Song have flank array sonars.