PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[SinoSoldier]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think the generally accepted range of that missile is some 8000 km...

That's the first JL-2 variant.

 

[i.e.]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think the generally accepted range of that missile is some 8000 km...

The great circle distance from Sanya Fenghuang International airport (lovely place, should go visits sometimes) to Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson is about 8700 miles. or 14000 km
The great circle distance from Qingdao to JFK is about 7000 miles. or 11000 km

of course if you lower the throw weight. don't merv as much, it will means a substantial improvement in range.

with out talking about the bastion options just talk about "patrols" and "ranges" is useless. If PLA can sit in Cuba then there is no need for any meaningful range.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Lol Cuban missile crisis II? And even if PLA could park an SSBN around cuba the USN will probably track 092/4s as they transit there...

The assumed inferiority of 092/4 probably means it can't go on independent patrols, so it will have to stay close to home protected by SSKs and SSNs ala bastion as you said. Until we get a quieter, hypothetical 096 and/or a longer ranged "JL-3" this is the only strategy PLAN has, and the fact it can't hit the US mainland sucks but there's no choice.
I'm more interested in the independent patrols 093 would have undertaken and the capabilities it has. I think tphuang's mentioned talk of PLAN SSNs even sailing all the way to the indian ocean

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Also to stamp out the numbers, i think it's generally accepted there are some 4 093s and 4 094's in existence, yes?
Certainly more than 2 of each, otherwise this recent photo would show 3/4 of the PLAN's 2nd gen SSB/N force.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

That's the first JL-2 variant.

there are no proof that we have 2 variants of JL-2

---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 AM ----------

Also to stamp out the numbers, i think it's generally accepted there are some 4 093s and 4 094's in existence, yes?

3 094 in service and 1 in construction
4 093 in service

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

And the three shown at Yulin Nuclear Submarine Base are probably JIN 411 and SHANG 409 and 410.

 

[kroko]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think tphuang's mentioned talk of PLAN SSNs even sailing all the way to the indian ocean

what about the east pacific ocean ? do chinese military ships ever go there ?

 

[SinoSoldier]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

there are no proof that we have 2 variants of JL-2

Just like we have no proof of its 8000 km range either? The 12000 km range is reportedly got from military insiders.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Just like we have no proof of its 8000 km range either? The 12000 km range is reportedly got from military insiders.

8000 km is from pentagon who have the ability to detect and track missile launch.
so we are sure it is at least 8000 km. But he question is if PLAN test the missile at full range or if pentagon
can know the max range even without full test?

And you're talking about military insiders?? This type of info is TOP SECRET. There is no way to have
leaks from insiders (like the J-20). Guy we're talking about PLA nuclear second-strike ability.

---------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

Concerning missile range issue i ve got this from Roger Cliff at http://the-diplomat.com/2012/01/20/behind-the-china-missile-hype/
he is talking about df-21d missile range

There seems to be dispute over the range of the DF-21D. Ranges have been estimated from 1500 kilometers to as much as 2700 kilometers. Where do you feel the figure should be placed? Do you feel the range could be extended even more with improvements in technology?

The most recent version of the DoD’s report on Chinese military states that the DF-21D “has a range exceeding 1,500 kilometers.” Unless for some reason they are being coy, I assume that if they thought the range was greater than 2,000 kilometers, then they would have said that it “has a range exceeding 2,000 kilometers.” Since they didn’t, I assume that the range of the DF-21D is somewhere between 1,500 kilometers and 2,000 kilometers. U.S. intelligence analysts can calculate the maximum range pretty precisely, even if the missile is tested in a “lofted” trajectory that sends it higher but not as far as it could go, by observing the trajectory, calculating the amount of energy needed to send it in such a trajectory, and then calculating the distance the missile would go if fired on a range-maximizing trajectory. Solid fuel rocket motors are difficult to shut off, so the amount of energy the missile uses will be the same regardless of what trajectory it is sent on,and it would be difficult for China to deceive the United States about the range of the missile.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

[/COLOR] Concerning missile range issue i ve got this from Roger Cliff at http://the-diplomat.com/2012/01/20/behind-the-china-missile-hype/
he is talking about df-21d missile range

It's interesting that the diplomat has made all this analysis off the pentagon's numbers when general chen bingde said DF-21D has a
range of 2700 km last year...

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China’s DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile is still in development, the chief of the Chinese general staff says, despite U.S. assessments that the potentially revolutionary weapon is operational.

The missile has a range of 2,700 km (1,680 mi.), the China Daily says in its report carrying the comments of Gen. Chen Bingde. The range figure seems well in excess of U.S. estimates, most recently stated as more than 1,500 km.

The program has encountered a lot of trouble, says Chen, who also acknowledges China’s aircraft carrier program.

And it's not like the PLA to overestimate its capabilities so imo the 2700 km's credibility supersedes the 1500 km number from US military "intelligence"/DoD estimates... they've not exactly been the best in recent years, from getting YJ-62's range wrong in ONI reports to still using old sub noise charts from the late nineties.

But this is for the end of carrier age thread, not the sub thread.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

what about the east pacific ocean ? do chinese military ships ever go there ?

Yes there are officially advertised exercice in Pacific Ocean. But you probably have non official exercice there.
PLAN subs operate more and more in the second island chain.

---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

And it's not like the PLA to overestimate its capabilities so imo the 2700 km's credibility supersedes the 1500 km number from US military "intelligence"/DoD estimates... they've not exactly been the best in recent years, from getting YJ-62's range wrong in ONI reports to still using old sub noise charts from the late nineties.

But this is for the end of carrier age thread, not the sub thread.

you are right. But it seems to me that it is easy for pentagon to know the range of an ICBM than the range of ASCM YJ-62.
the estimate about PLAN sub noise is a total crap. Only people witn no knowledge about sub technology (journalist) will use them again and again