PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Western analyst has derisively called JL2 as failure because they haven't been deployed check Hans Kristensen blog
You got it wrong the guy use inappropriate words .What he meant is 6 consecutive successful test without single failure. I guess bulava have 8 successful test with 6 failure.They finished their test and ready to deploy
I don't know if there is any independent confirmation of the Chinese test and I guess they probably need couple more test before they can be deployed. But I am not surprise if they have IOC right now
Well based on Wki if one can believe wiki they have 3 land test and 8 sea based test So it should be close to deployment with this new test
The whole JL-2 project lasts roughly about one decade, till present. The original designation of the project was so-called "New DongFeng Goes Undersea" ("新东风下海"), by the COSTIND and CMC. The project was co-held by the First and Second Research Institutes of the Ministry of Aerospace Industry (defunct, see CNSA)
At 10:20 AM, 22nd Dec, 2002, the first ship of a new type of SSBN was formally launched by China in Huludao, which now is known as Type 094 (Jin-Class). But, its SLBM was, just as convention, lagging behind. JL-2 has three subtypes, the initial experimental one, the "Jia" (甲, Chinese literally means "The First", or "I"), and the "Yi" (乙, Chinese literally means "The Second", or "II"). The codes for "Jia" and "Yi" are JMA and JMB, respectively. The tests happened of JMA/B are listed like below:
JMA: Land-based tests, 3 times; launched from a base in Shanxi, most likely the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center or nearby; 2001; successful.
JMB: Sea-based, 8 times; launched near Dalian, by the modified Golf-class diesel-powered ballistic missile submarine; 2002; successful.
Western analyst has derisively called JL2 as failure because they haven't been deployed check Hans Kristensen blog
You got it wrong the guy use inappropriate words .What he meant is 6 consecutive successful test without single failure. I guess bulava have 8 successful test with 6 failure.They finished their test and ready to deploy
I don't know if there is any independent confirmation of the Chinese test and I guess they probably need couple more test before they can be deployed. But I am not surprise if they have IOC right now
Well based on Wki if one can believe wiki they have 3 land test and 8 sea based test So it should be close to deployment with this new test
The whole JL-2 project lasts roughly about one decade, till present. The original designation of the project was so-called "New DongFeng Goes Undersea" ("新东风下海"), by the COSTIND and CMC. The project was co-held by the First and Second Research Institutes of the Ministry of Aerospace Industry (defunct, see CNSA)
At 10:20 AM, 22nd Dec, 2002, the first ship of a new type of SSBN was formally launched by China in Huludao, which now is known as Type 094 (Jin-Class). But, its SLBM was, just as convention, lagging behind. JL-2 has three subtypes, the initial experimental one, the "Jia" (甲, Chinese literally means "The First", or "I"), and the "Yi" (乙, Chinese literally means "The Second", or "II"). The codes for "Jia" and "Yi" are JMA and JMB, respectively. The tests happened of JMA/B are listed like below:
JMA: Land-based tests, 3 times; launched from a base in Shanxi, most likely the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center or nearby; 2001; successful.
JMB: Sea-based, 8 times; launched near Dalian, by the modified Golf-class diesel-powered ballistic missile submarine; 2002; successful.
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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
btw, at least that mysterious new submarine they have out seems to be a generation ahead of song/Yuan. I would think it's somewhere between kilo and Lada in terms of acoustic performance.
You can believe what you want. Song and Yuan are both part of the 039 series in China. And Song was never known to be a very quiet submarine. Yuan is certainly quite modified from Song, but it still shares a lot of commonality with it. Just look at the size/positioning of the sink holes, propeller technology, size/shape of hump, size/shape of sail, position of sail and overall shape of the hull. I don't pretend to be a submariner, but if you take a look at what is considered to be the quietest subs out there and compare that to Song/Yuan. So when I talk to submariners and they tell me that Song/Yuan are not that quiet, it's quite believable.
btw, at least that mysterious new submarine they have out seems to be a generation ahead of song/Yuan. I would think it's somewhere between kilo and Lada in terms of acoustic performance.
Actually the new SSK they have is showing somewhat of a departure from previous Yuan/Song. It seems to have taken quite a bit from Lada design. Looking forward to see where they go from here.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Agree. The two classes have some hull similarities. But the chinese sub is much bigger, hull is more streamlined, and sail is much different. I wonder what impact all of that has on acoustic performance ?
lada sub
chinese sub
keep in mind that this past november the russian navy rejected the lada class, because it was far from reaching its requirements.
Agree. The two classes have some hull similarities. But the chinese sub is much bigger, hull is more streamlined, and sail is much different. I wonder what impact all of that has on acoustic performance ?
lada sub
chinese sub
keep in mind that this past november the russian navy rejected the lada class, because it was far from reaching its requirements.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Are they testing the missile or are they testing the firing computers and silos on the subs?
On more important news than the bashing of Chinese sub. the rumor is that China successfully test JL2. first posted by Houshanghai at PakDef
JL2 sub-lanuching ICBM succeeded in tests on December,26th,2010
JL2 sub-lanuching ICBM succeeded in tests on December,26th,2010
well, leaks from CD:
it is widely reported that JL2 sub-lauching ICBM succeeded in tests on December,26th,2010.
6 JL2 were launched continuously in the test and all succeeded.
3.2010年12月,渤海湾一次次巨浪飞溅,中国的战略核反击力量取得了重大进展,虽
然其间经历了各种磨难和挫折,但是终于在年终等到了好消息,战略导弹核潜艇潜
入深海大洋进行战备值班威慑霸权主义国家的日子为时不远了.
link;
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INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 30 DEC 04:05 2011 UNTIL 30 DEC 04:30 2011. CREATED:
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Are they testing the missile or are they testing the firing computers and silos on the subs?
franco-russe
Senior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Shanghai Shenjia Naval Repair Yard No. 4805 (31 15 30 N 121 32 51 E). They do major overhauls of KILO class submarines.
Shanghai Shenjia Naval Repair Yard No. 4805 (31 15 30 N 121 32 51 E). They do major overhauls of KILO class submarines.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Now we can say for sure. Yes it is definitely a missile test. This is a real ground breaking news. People get fixated with platform but not with missile.But submarine without missile are useless. For once now China has a credible second strike capability. None to soon because there are talk of encircling, containment, etc. Let hope this will quiet any talk of surgical attack
Let face conventional build up take sooo much time and money even with such feverish effort China only managed to build roughly 3 dozen ships in span of 10 years Too slow! There is no way China can achieve parity in the next 10 years
This news also proof that US navy does not necessarily inform the media of each and every Chinese missile test. I cannot find the news about this missile test by goggling.
This should be the last test before deployment . JL2 has been tested 8 times with 2 failures. A great day for China
Michael Cole blog
First posted by mandrake in CDF
MND(Taiwan ministry of Defense) confirms Chinese missile tests
EVIDENCE?Chinese state media have reported that a fisherman in Shandong had accidentally retrieved wreckage from what may have been a missile booster
By J. Michael Cole / Staff Reporter
The Ministry of National Defense confirmed yesterday that China had test-fired Julang-2 (JL-2) -submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) before the New Year.
Chinese military bulletin boards recently lit up with reports that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy might have test fired as many as six JL-2 SLBMs near Dalian in -Liaoning Province, China.
At least two submarines in China’s Northern Fleet are known to operate out of Xiaopingdao -Submarine Base close to Dalian.
China plans to introduce up to five Type 094, or Jin-class, -second-generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) armed with JL-2 missiles. Each Type 094 submarine can carry as many as 12 missiles.
The JL-2, designed by China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp’s 4th Academy, is a solid-propellant derivative of the Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).
The JL-2, one of China’s three long-range strategic -missiles, has a maximum range estimated at 8,000km and can carry a -thermonuclear warhead with a yield ranging from 25 kilotons to 1,000 kilotons, or about 80 times the force of the nuclear device dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.
Contacted for comment yesterday, Ministry of National Defense spokesman Colonel David Lo (羅紹和) said the military was aware that China had tested the JL-2 and would pay close attention to further development of the missile.
Lo’s comments were the first official confirmation by Taiwan’s military that the PLA Navy had carried out the missile test, less than three weeks before Taiwanese head for the polls on Saturday.
So far official Chinese media and the Chinese military have not confirmed rumors of the exercise. Missile tests carried out by the PLA in March 1996 to pressure Taiwanese as they headed into their first direct presidential election in the nation’s history are generally believed to have backfired on China and boosted support for then-president Lee Teng-hui (李登輝).
However, the state-owned Chinese-language Global Times -reported yesterday that a Chinese fisherman in Shandong Province had retrieved cylindrical wreckage from what appeared to be a missile booster, which could provide confirmation of the SLBM test.
Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington, told the Washington Times last week that the tests would clearly demonstrate that after several years of development and delays, the PLA Navy is now able to launch submarine-based ballistic missiles “at a near wartime frequency.”
“If these reports are true, then the [Type] 094 submarine is ready for the PLA version of deterrence patrols, which could commence this year,” he said.
“This number of successful tests would also indicate that the PLA has, at long last, resolved whatever issues were preventing this missile from achieving ‘operational’ status,” the paper quoted him as saying.
The US Department of Defense’s annual report on the PLA stated that once it is deployed, the Type 094/JL-2 combination would constitute China’s first real sea-based deterrent, a capability that could give Beijing the means to discourage the US from intervening on behalf of Taiwan.
Additional reporting by Rich Chang
Now we can say for sure. Yes it is definitely a missile test. This is a real ground breaking news. People get fixated with platform but not with missile.But submarine without missile are useless. For once now China has a credible second strike capability. None to soon because there are talk of encircling, containment, etc. Let hope this will quiet any talk of surgical attack
Let face conventional build up take sooo much time and money even with such feverish effort China only managed to build roughly 3 dozen ships in span of 10 years Too slow! There is no way China can achieve parity in the next 10 years
This news also proof that US navy does not necessarily inform the media of each and every Chinese missile test. I cannot find the news about this missile test by goggling.
This should be the last test before deployment . JL2 has been tested 8 times with 2 failures. A great day for China
Michael Cole blog
First posted by mandrake in CDF
MND(Taiwan ministry of Defense) confirms Chinese missile tests
EVIDENCE?Chinese state media have reported that a fisherman in Shandong had accidentally retrieved wreckage from what may have been a missile booster
By J. Michael Cole / Staff Reporter
The Ministry of National Defense confirmed yesterday that China had test-fired Julang-2 (JL-2) -submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) before the New Year.
Chinese military bulletin boards recently lit up with reports that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy might have test fired as many as six JL-2 SLBMs near Dalian in -Liaoning Province, China.
At least two submarines in China’s Northern Fleet are known to operate out of Xiaopingdao -Submarine Base close to Dalian.
China plans to introduce up to five Type 094, or Jin-class, -second-generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) armed with JL-2 missiles. Each Type 094 submarine can carry as many as 12 missiles.
The JL-2, designed by China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp’s 4th Academy, is a solid-propellant derivative of the Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).
The JL-2, one of China’s three long-range strategic -missiles, has a maximum range estimated at 8,000km and can carry a -thermonuclear warhead with a yield ranging from 25 kilotons to 1,000 kilotons, or about 80 times the force of the nuclear device dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.
Contacted for comment yesterday, Ministry of National Defense spokesman Colonel David Lo (羅紹和) said the military was aware that China had tested the JL-2 and would pay close attention to further development of the missile.
Lo’s comments were the first official confirmation by Taiwan’s military that the PLA Navy had carried out the missile test, less than three weeks before Taiwanese head for the polls on Saturday.
So far official Chinese media and the Chinese military have not confirmed rumors of the exercise. Missile tests carried out by the PLA in March 1996 to pressure Taiwanese as they headed into their first direct presidential election in the nation’s history are generally believed to have backfired on China and boosted support for then-president Lee Teng-hui (李登輝).
However, the state-owned Chinese-language Global Times -reported yesterday that a Chinese fisherman in Shandong Province had retrieved cylindrical wreckage from what appeared to be a missile booster, which could provide confirmation of the SLBM test.
Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington, told the Washington Times last week that the tests would clearly demonstrate that after several years of development and delays, the PLA Navy is now able to launch submarine-based ballistic missiles “at a near wartime frequency.”
“If these reports are true, then the [Type] 094 submarine is ready for the PLA version of deterrence patrols, which could commence this year,” he said.
“This number of successful tests would also indicate that the PLA has, at long last, resolved whatever issues were preventing this missile from achieving ‘operational’ status,” the paper quoted him as saying.
The US Department of Defense’s annual report on the PLA stated that once it is deployed, the Type 094/JL-2 combination would constitute China’s first real sea-based deterrent, a capability that could give Beijing the means to discourage the US from intervening on behalf of Taiwan.
Additional reporting by Rich Chang
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