Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
Well I am just frustrated by the Chinese Design to be so secretive about their weapons programme. It is true that humans fear what they donot understand. If this isn't a deliberate attempt by PLA to create fear and confusion in the mind of an observer then I wouldn't know better.
Since when was the west feared the PLA?
If anything the west belittles China's achievements and tries to make everything Chinese to be a 'copy' of something else. Even today, you have people who insist the J10 is a Lavi rip-off, and others that claim the J20 is a re-hashed Mig 1.42.
Even your own opening post displays such tendencies that while you might be impressed by the hardware, you at the same time is expressing your doubts with your arguments about lack of international exchanges.
Maybe if you really examined your thinking rationally, you would realize that it is China's economic power that you fear, and you are trying to address that sense of uneasy by focusing on the doubts cast about China's military capabilities. Thus, far from adding to the sense of fear and unease, China's military image is functioning as something of a counter to the image of the 'voracious juggernaut' that the western media tries to portray China as.
There is an old Chinese saying that sums up what the Chinese strategy is, and how that differs from the west perfectly. It roughly translates to 'the strong flaunt their strength, while the weak flaunt their weakness'.
The rational behind this is that the rich and powerful will try and intimidate the weak and poor with outlandish displays of their wealth and power. Take the US military for example, it goes out of its way to paint itself as an all powerful force that cannot be defeated with techno-wizardry of the highest level and men that are trained to superhuman standards.
The idea is to cow any potential adversaries and/or make them feel so inadequate that they devote an unsustainable amount of resources to try and achieve parity that they spend themselves into extinction, like the USSR did.
China's strategy OTOH, is to keep its true capabilities and intentions as secret as possible, with the reasoning that while the west is rich and advanced enough to come up with effective counters to any new weapons the Chinese might develop, you cannot prepare for what you are not expecting.
Even today, China is not strong enough or advanced enough to want to get into an arms race with the west. So it avoids having to do that by not showing the world what it is focusing on or working towards. Even when something solid does leak out, there is enough doubt and confusion around that the west cannot decide if it is a real project or a smokescreen and thus will likely not divert the resources needed to counter it until after it is operational. A perfect example is China's AShBM. Does it exist? It is real? Should the USN divert the resources needed to counter it? These are still questions being asked today.
And I have pointed out above, the secrecy does not just breed fear as you suggest. As your own actions demonstrate, it also gives rise to questions about just how effect the Chinese military is, and I am sure many in the west find that a source of comfort - that despite the strength of the Chinese economy, the west still enjoys a military superiority over the PLA. Thus they would be less distressed and would not want to spend as much on arms as if the Chinese did USSR style displays of strength every time they develop something new and advanced.
Question is, what is Chana so insecure about that they would go to any extent to create the image of this mythical and voracious juggernaut that would decimate any and every one that questions it's intent. Truly this is the picture of China in my mind, partially due to the propaganda strewn in the international media and partly due to the secretive nature of Chinese administration.
Give me a single example where the Chinese government or media has actively tried to portray this image of a 'voracious juggernaut' that you suggest. It is the western media that tries to paint this picture, not Chinese.
As for insecurity, well just how many air shows does the like of the B2 and F22 attend? How many international exchanges do they participate in? Is that insecurity also?
One of, it not the reason planes participate at airshows is to generate interest and sales. Since the likes of the B2 and F22 are not for sale, there is less reason to show them off is there? Where the F22 does appear at airshows, it is almost always at airshows inside American territory, and they are there to be recruiting and promotional tools for the USAF. Its the same thing with Chinese systems.
The JF17 goes to air shows because it is for sale. The J10 does not, and the J20 will not, because they are not for sale.
As the famous example of a BAE SAM system getting a 'lock' on a B2 at an airshow demonstrates, it is not just airplanes that goes to air shows, and every time you send an airplane to an international airshow, you expose it to risk of a potential adversary might be able to collect important data on it.
If the airshow was on US soil and a foreign system goes active as an F22 or B2 is passing, the Americans can impound the system and arrest the people responsible. So no secret data is gained. But if a J20 went to Paris or Fanbrough and an American radar lit up and got a good scan, do you think it more likely that the local authorities would arrest the responsible party and turn over all data to China or that they would secretly give them a pat on the back and ask for a copy of the results?
I understand that subs can't be flying but my reference was to the much vaunted J20.
Then maybe it would have been easier to understand your meaning and context if you had posted your thoughts on the J20 thread and not quoted one of my responses in the PLAN sub thread.
Ps, welcome to the forum!
