PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread

jobjed

Captain
I would bet real money they plan to upgrade 168 and 169. The only real question is how many VLS modules they install. They could do 32 cells forward and 16 cells aft, or they could forgo the 16 cells aft and instead put in a second hangar. And then use 8 or even 16 of the 16 slant launchers to house that new long range ASW cruise missile. 8-16 long range ASW missiles, VLS for possibly additional ASW missiles, VDS/TAS, and 2 helos would make the 168 and 169 the most potent ASW platforms in the PLAN inventory.

If all the Sovs get refurbished with AJK-16 VLS, then the Shtil missiles can only be given to 052Bs. If the 052Bs also get refitted with AJK-16/UVLS, there are no other vessels in the PLAN that can host Shtils. Is the PLAN going to just leave them to waste or schedule enough live-fire exercises to them all up before hauling the ships in for MLU?

I would also wager the 055, after entering service, would be the PLAN's most potent ASW platform due to its voluminous bow sonar, dual hangar, and UVLS.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
If all the Sovs get refurbished with AJK-16 VLS, then the Shtil missiles can only be given to 052Bs. If the 052Bs also get refitted with AJK-16/UVLS, there are no other vessels in the PLAN that can host Shtils. Is the PLAN going to just leave them to waste or schedule enough live-fire exercises to them all up before hauling the ships in for MLU?

I would also wager the 055, after entering service, would be the PLAN's most potent ASW platform due to its voluminous bow sonar, dual hangar, and UVLS.
Yes, the Shtils would go to waste, just like all the electronics aboard the Sovs along with the Sunburns, etc. If the PLAN is willing to ditch the Sunburn in favor of the YJ-12, I don't see any reason they wouldn't also be ok with ditching the Shtil in favor of the HHQ-16.

As for the 055's ASW capabilities, yes they would be in aggregate greater than a repurposed 168, but they would certainly not be used in main or perhaps even at all for this role unless in the worst non-ideal circumstances. I am referring to a PLAN surface combatant primarily intended for ASW, like the 054A+, for example. Pretty much all modern warships are multirole, but some ships are better at some roles than others. 052D and 055 are unquestionably primarily AAW but could obviously do ASW in a pinch. The legacy PLAN destroyers cannot easily mount the UVLS system or the radars that would be needed to guide LRSAMs, so they are effectively going to be defaulted into ASW.

Given the PLAN's historical lack of naval air strike, it has always had "distributed lethality" in its fleet structure with all PLAN surface combatants having decent to excellent ASuW capabilities. There are other roles of course like land attack, anti-sat and ballistic missile attack/defense, and AAW command, but these are easily going to be primarily or even exclusively the 055's domain. So basically for each of the PLAN's ships it comes down to a question of ASW + local (medium-range) AAW + ASuW, or fleet (long-range) AAW + backup ASW + ASuW. To the former category will belong all of the PLAN's present and future frigates as well as all the refitted legacy destroyers, possibly including the 051Cs (depends on what they do with the Rif-M complexes). Of the former category a refitted 168/169 in the manner I described would certainly turn it into the most potent primarily ASW platform in the PLAN's inventory. To the latter category will belong the 052C/D, the 055, and all future destroyers/cruisers.
 

schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes, the Shtils would go to waste, just like all the electronics aboard the Sovs along with the Sunburns, etc. If the PLAN is willing to ditch the Sunburn in favor of the YJ-12, I don't see any reason they wouldn't also be ok with ditching the Shtil in favor of the HHQ-16.

How long is the "shelf life" of these missiles ?
If they need a big refurbish with the exchange of some russian parts every 10 years or so, it might even save money to replace them with the same missiles the rest of the fleet uses.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I think he is referring to the overall Chinese military budget.
Officialy about 150 but the true estimated to about 220 with all new weapons i think completely logic...

How long is the "shelf life" of these missiles ?
If they need a big refurbish with the exchange of some russian parts every 10 years or so, it might even save money to replace them with the same missiles the rest of the fleet uses.
IIRC in general fuel or electronic is out of date but a missile have in general a service life of minimum 20 years remains clearly less than a ship.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Officialy about 150 but the true estimated to about 220 with all new weapons i think completely logic...
$217 billion according to SIPRI for 2017.

IIRC in general fuel or electronic is out of date but a missile have in general a service life of minimum 20 years remains clearly less than a ship.
Yes it is certainly worthwhile to convert to domestic missiles during a midlife refit for financial, logistical, and tactical reasons.
 

palejade

New Member
Registered Member
A lot depends on how well the missiles have been stored since they were delivered. If the temperature and humidity levels are not maintained the fuel can deteriorate. Also as the missiles age the reliability of the propellant becomes an issue - some just won't fly as far as they should.

On another topic, does anyone know what the new radar fit is likely to be?
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
A lot depends on how well the missiles have been stored since they were delivered. If the temperature and humidity levels are not maintained the fuel can deteriorate. Also as the missiles age the reliability of the propellant becomes an issue - some just won't fly as far as they should.

On another topic, does anyone know what the new radar fit is likely to be?
I suspect it won't be anything dramatic. Top Plate, Mineral ME, Orekh all replaced by domestic versions. Sovs and 052Bs will probably start to look very much alike in sensor and weapons outfits, with the possible exception of ASCMs.
 

by78

General
A nice satellite photo of the two Sovremenny destroyers being retrofitted. You can clearly see the new VLS on one of the Sovremenny, which contrasts with the other one that's without the VLS.

25394258538_ccd765825a_o.jpg
 
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