PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
Geographer
Junior Member
I have some questions about land reclamation.
Is the reclaimed land entirely made of concrete or cement? Or will it be loose sand and dirt with a concrete seawall?
Does the reclaimed land itself have soil and vegetation?
Reclaimed land is usually left idle for a few years to let the new land settle into the Earth before building skyscrapers. Why isn't China doing that with these islands? We've already seen construction of a multi-story building on Johnson South Reef.
Is the reclaimed land entirely made of concrete or cement? Or will it be loose sand and dirt with a concrete seawall?
Does the reclaimed land itself have soil and vegetation?
Reclaimed land is usually left idle for a few years to let the new land settle into the Earth before building skyscrapers. Why isn't China doing that with these islands? We've already seen construction of a multi-story building on Johnson South Reef.
They are principally using sand and dirt.
My guess is that ultimately it will be vegetated...and that would not take too long even if it was allowed to happen naturally...but would probably be a part of a landscaping effort.
I expect they will have sea walls where necessary...and they most certainly will ultimately add structures and other improvements like landing pads and runways where they can.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Those newer reclaimed needs to have a larger power plant in order to support the electricity living needs for those multi-story buildings as well as water purification. Eventually it'll get there.
lcloo
Captain
You are right on that reclaimed lands are usually left idle forfew years to let it settled down. Reclaimed land tend to sink several inches to more than a foot in years to come. This depends on the soil structure of the seabed. If the seabed is composed mostly of mud, the sinking will be very bad.
However, if the atoll island has rocky layer just below the coral sand seabed and the foundation of building is deep enough to reach this rock layer, there will be minimum or no sinking of building.
Another reason is China does not want to wait for few years. They have to build now to complete their move.
joshuatree
Captain
I hope they will implement more renewables for day-to-day ops such as offshore windmills and solar panels to help reduce the need for frequent fuel barges, not to mention reducing the real estate needed to store the fuel. It's doubtful any form of nuclear generation will be installed.
I concur, all these reefs probably have former volcanic islands or tectonic origins underneath, meaning there should be a rocky layer. Prior to the reclamation, we could see the waters were pretty shallow so it means if they pile driven the foundation, the buildings should be on firm setting. Growing anything on the other hand will probably require a lot of landscaping and importation of dirt but we do see such materials from those aerial pics.
Yes they would have known that the potential for reclamation is there when they based people on the reef and surveyed long ago, but saying that they 'found the land' is less alarming than saying if they intend to fill it with sand/concrete and enlarge the reef. The latter would imply a formal decision/policy while with the former way of wording they are playing it down, as if almost like they are simply making use of what is already there. In a sense that is correct but large amount work is needed to actually make those land base-able, and for large permanent structure to be build on them, so it could not have been but a carefully deliberated decision to do so.
Not sure if this has been posted in other threads... But I found this funny..
(edit: same news with pics posted in the taiwan military thread https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ta...discussion-part-ii.t3396/page-217#post-325661 )
Taiwan turns to Chinese shipper for help with port in disputed waters
BY MICHAEL GOLD
TAIPEI Fri Feb 6, 2015 8:21am EST
(Reuters) - Taiwan had to use a mainland Chinese shipper to get vital materials to a $100 million port it is building on a disputed island in the South China Sea last month after it couldn't find a local firm to do the job, Taiwanese officials said on Friday.
A coastguard official told Reuters the vessel from Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industry, a state-run company, was escorted by a Taiwanese patrol boat to Itu Aba island on what he called an unprecedented mission.
Two other Taiwanese vessels monitored the ship while it unloaded its cargo of large caissons, or watertight chambers used in the construction of piers.
China claims virtually all of the South China Sea and is at loggerheads with other claimants in the contested waters, particularly the Philippines and Vietnam.
Yet the willingness of Zhenhua Heavy to accept such a contract from Taiwan, which China regards as a renegade province, shows how Beijing is largely unfazed by the work on Itu Aba.
Military strategists say that is because Itu Aba could eventually fall into China's hands should it ever take over Taiwan, which it has vowed to do if Taipei declares independence.
"China is not overly concerned with what Taiwan is doing on Itu Aba given that it believes it will one day control these islands," said Ian Storey, a regional security analyst at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.
"Beijing can live with this," added Storey, calling the shipment unusual but adding it did not suggest a new trend of cooperation between China and Taiwan over the South China Sea.
Taiwan has close security ties with the United States, which has been highly critical of Beijing's assertiveness in the South China Sea.
While Itu Aba, also called Tai Ping, is small, no other disputed island in the disputed Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea has such sophisticated facilities.
It boasts a runway that is the bigger of only two in the Spratlys and the island has its own fresh water source. The port is expected to be finished in late 2015.
UNEASE AMONG LEGISLATORS
Liao Jaw-chang, director of the construction division of Taiwan's National Expressway Engineering Bureau, the unit responsible for building the port, said the Chinese vessel arrived at Itu Aba on Jan. 24 carrying 11 large caissons and left on Jan. 28.
Contractors could not find a Taiwanese ship able to transport the caissons, Liao told Reuters.
"This kind of ship is not very common anywhere in the world. As far as I know, we've never used a mainland ship for this purpose before," Liao said.
While Taiwan's work on Itu Aba is drawing little flak from China, the need to use a mainland vessel worried some Taiwanese legislators because of the potential implications for national security, according to Liao and local media.
"There were definitely some legislators who were concerned about the use of this ship," Liao said.
The coastguard official, who declined to be identified because the issue touches on national security concerns, added: "We've never had to engage in this kind of supervisory mission before, escorting a mainland ship from Taiwan to Tai Ping island."
The board secretary of Zhenhua Heavy, Wang Jue, said he did not know the exact details of the contract, but said the company had no problem accepting such business from Taiwan.
China's Foreign Ministry said it was not aware of the situation.
Although China-Taiwan ties have warmed since Ma Ying-jeou was elected Taiwan president in 2008, there has been no political reconciliation or a lessening of military distrust.
But if conflict ever broke out in the Spratlys, analysts and military attaches believe China would seek to protect Itu Aba as its own, strongly aware of its strategic value.
The Spratlys are one of the main flashpoints in the South China Sea, where military fortifications belonging to all claimants but Brunei are dotted across some of the world's busiest shipping lanes.
Itu Aba is Taiwan's only holding in the Spratlys and Taiwan is considering stationing armed vessels permanently there, Taiwanese officials said in October.
(Additional reporting by Brenda Goh in Shanghai, Michael Martina in Beijing and Greg Torode in Hong Kong; Writing by ; Editing by )
(edit: same news with pics posted in the taiwan military thread https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ta...discussion-part-ii.t3396/page-217#post-325661 )
Taiwan turns to Chinese shipper for help with port in disputed waters
BY MICHAEL GOLD
TAIPEI Fri Feb 6, 2015 8:21am EST
(Reuters) - Taiwan had to use a mainland Chinese shipper to get vital materials to a $100 million port it is building on a disputed island in the South China Sea last month after it couldn't find a local firm to do the job, Taiwanese officials said on Friday.
A coastguard official told Reuters the vessel from Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industry, a state-run company, was escorted by a Taiwanese patrol boat to Itu Aba island on what he called an unprecedented mission.
Two other Taiwanese vessels monitored the ship while it unloaded its cargo of large caissons, or watertight chambers used in the construction of piers.
China claims virtually all of the South China Sea and is at loggerheads with other claimants in the contested waters, particularly the Philippines and Vietnam.
Yet the willingness of Zhenhua Heavy to accept such a contract from Taiwan, which China regards as a renegade province, shows how Beijing is largely unfazed by the work on Itu Aba.
Military strategists say that is because Itu Aba could eventually fall into China's hands should it ever take over Taiwan, which it has vowed to do if Taipei declares independence.
"China is not overly concerned with what Taiwan is doing on Itu Aba given that it believes it will one day control these islands," said Ian Storey, a regional security analyst at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.
"Beijing can live with this," added Storey, calling the shipment unusual but adding it did not suggest a new trend of cooperation between China and Taiwan over the South China Sea.
Taiwan has close security ties with the United States, which has been highly critical of Beijing's assertiveness in the South China Sea.
While Itu Aba, also called Tai Ping, is small, no other disputed island in the disputed Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea has such sophisticated facilities.
It boasts a runway that is the bigger of only two in the Spratlys and the island has its own fresh water source. The port is expected to be finished in late 2015.
UNEASE AMONG LEGISLATORS
Liao Jaw-chang, director of the construction division of Taiwan's National Expressway Engineering Bureau, the unit responsible for building the port, said the Chinese vessel arrived at Itu Aba on Jan. 24 carrying 11 large caissons and left on Jan. 28.
Contractors could not find a Taiwanese ship able to transport the caissons, Liao told Reuters.
"This kind of ship is not very common anywhere in the world. As far as I know, we've never used a mainland ship for this purpose before," Liao said.
While Taiwan's work on Itu Aba is drawing little flak from China, the need to use a mainland vessel worried some Taiwanese legislators because of the potential implications for national security, according to Liao and local media.
"There were definitely some legislators who were concerned about the use of this ship," Liao said.
The coastguard official, who declined to be identified because the issue touches on national security concerns, added: "We've never had to engage in this kind of supervisory mission before, escorting a mainland ship from Taiwan to Tai Ping island."
The board secretary of Zhenhua Heavy, Wang Jue, said he did not know the exact details of the contract, but said the company had no problem accepting such business from Taiwan.
China's Foreign Ministry said it was not aware of the situation.
Although China-Taiwan ties have warmed since Ma Ying-jeou was elected Taiwan president in 2008, there has been no political reconciliation or a lessening of military distrust.
But if conflict ever broke out in the Spratlys, analysts and military attaches believe China would seek to protect Itu Aba as its own, strongly aware of its strategic value.
The Spratlys are one of the main flashpoints in the South China Sea, where military fortifications belonging to all claimants but Brunei are dotted across some of the world's busiest shipping lanes.
Itu Aba is Taiwan's only holding in the Spratlys and Taiwan is considering stationing armed vessels permanently there, Taiwanese officials said in October.
(Additional reporting by Brenda Goh in Shanghai, Michael Martina in Beijing and Greg Torode in Hong Kong; Writing by ; Editing by )