PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff Head said:

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I expect, sometime thereafter, within 3-5 years to see the PLAN build two full-deck carriers, just like they built the two 52Cs and 52Bs. Those will be their longer term solution, using the Varyag as a stop gap and training platform, and then as a useful compliment to the other two afterwards.

During the same time frame, I expect they will prodcue some true LPD type amphibious ships.

But that's just my opinion.

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but it sounds realistic to me, with a small difference - instead of a LPD design i'd prefere a amphibious assault ship like the USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) + ) . Instead of Harriers they should have an angled deck and catapult to serve small ground attack fighters (L-15 for example) additional to some attack and transport helos. This kind of ships in my opinion is a bigger need as an LPD; and if I add the military need and the type of ships the chinese naval ingeneers studied, I ve the result "LHD". And if I look about the L-15 developement (the aircraft is expected to make its first flight in 2005. Should the aircraft be chosen by the PLAAF, the first operational variant will become available as early as 2008~2010) and the fabulous Wuzhuang Zhisheng-10 (WZ-10) attack-helicopter (As many as six prototypes are said to have been built since 2004. These helicopters are receiving extensive flight test before the design can be finalised and production approved) - I'll wait for an LHD around 2010.....

At the other hand - LPDs like the SAN ANTONIO-class or Austin-class would be the next step after large landing ships (LSTs).

May be, an LPD programm like the modell, we have seen here and LHD will progress at the same time.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Well building carriers are not as easy as to build destroyers...I'm sure that in 3-5 years we sure know more about chinese carrier plans but to have two carriers building...unlikely, perhaps one...but certainly not two...

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

pic of varjag before dry dock, made in 2004 I think
there is a crane to change big engines at the pier (1st and last pic)
Is there a thick fence or wall (made by containers, I think. marking a big working area near the Varjag) to stop viewing visitors at the pier? Both lifts are down; (1st pic).....

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

I think it is going to be used a amph warfare/close airsupport ship for the invasion of the ROC in 2010. I think it will operate attack/helos and heloborne inf bats like the U.S did for the invasion of Afhgaistan and hati with its carriers by turning them into giant helo carriers.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Sczepan said:

May be, an LPD programm like the modell, we have seen here and LHD will progress at the same time.

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An LPH class is clearly a defintie potential for the PRC. Maybe sooner than later.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

utelore said:

I think it is going to be used a amph warfare/close airsupport ship for the invasion of the ROC in 2010. I think it will operate attack/helos and heloborne inf bats like the U.S did for the invasion of Afhgaistan and hati with its carriers by turning them into giant helo carriers.

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Would it even be practical with that large carrier for such work?

In an future conflict between the China and Taiwan, I guess the initial beachhead will be at the Northern tip of Taiwan. My guess is that the Z-8, Z-9 and the Hip choppers would have range enough for doing the short trip over the strait, without the need of taking off with soldiers frm the ships, right?

I would rather use the Varyag as fleet air defence, rather than a giant heli carrier.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

utelore said:

I think it is going to be used a amph warfare/close airsupport ship for the invasion of the ROC in 2010. I think it will operate attack/helos and heloborne inf bats like the U.S did for the invasion of Afhgaistan and hati with its carriers by turning them into giant helo carriers.

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and

Gauntlet said:

Would it even be practical with that large carrier for such work?
.....
I would rather use the Varyag as fleet air defence, rather than a giant heli carrier.

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I think - the varjag will become a test-carrier, when she really will become operational in military services ... for amphibious operations I'd like to prefere a 20 000 ts angled-deck modell;

Gauntlet said:

....In an future conflict between the China and Taiwan, I guess the initial beachhead will be at the Northern tip of Taiwan. My guess is that the Z-8 (Isnt this the localy produced Hip's? and Z-9 choppers would have range enough for thate work, right?

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Cruising speed of Z-8 (localy produced variant of the SA 321Ja Super Frelon helicopter) is 266km/h; combat range = 500km (with 3,000kg payload), also Cruising speed of Z-9 = 250~260km/h,
so the Z-8 and Z-9 transport-helos will cross the street within 1/2 hour, which is time enough to start the taiwanese attack-choppers - and 1/2 hour back to the main-land (this means: duck-shooting by a number of 53 taiwanese AH-1 and - in near future - 30 taiwanese AH 64);

so lets them escort by the WuZhi-9 (WZ-9), which is the attack version of Z-9 and with about 30~40 in service with the PLA Army Aviation Corps;
- they also need at least 1/2 hour crossing the open sea to be attacked by ground to air-weapons, fighters and attack helos at this trip .....they will cross the open sea and the defenders are waiting behind the trees and hills .....

How much helos do you think ar operational at the beach, when they need 1 hour for 1 trip and after that they have to be loaded and fulled (if they where lucky enough to cross the street both times without shut down)?

No, the simple "Invading of Taiwan" needs a fleet of amphibious carriers, crossing the street and carriing a lot of transport and attack-helos and ground attack planes, which can made surprise attacks at each point of the island. And they need a fleet of air-defence ships and to be supportet by fighting jets ....

And about other coasts?

Taiwan will come back to china, sooner or later, its only a question of time and politcs, not of military affairs. But what about other coasts?

For power projection China need aircarft carriers, also to protect an amphibious fleet outside of home waters. A true blue water navy without carriers and air-shild is unthinkable to me.
And now we are coming back to Varjags future.
If the PLAN really is interested in Carrier-Operations, than they now have the best chance to start - by using the Varjag.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Thank you for that informative post, cleared alot up for me.

But anyway, to continue on what I posted; I definetly don't think the Varyag should be converted to a assault carrier like the USMC has them. This would cost to much to finalize. Rather finish her as a fleet carrier, capable of having a fighter fleet of around 30 planes (depending on which planes they will use) as a primary air defence mission, and maybe capable of launching antiship missiles (the planes, that is).

But this has been discussed numerous times, so I will stop now.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Gauntlet said:

... I definetly don't think the Varyag should be converted to a assault carrier like the USMC has them. This would cost to much to finalize. Rather finish her as a fleet carrier, capable of having a fighter fleet of around 30 planes (depending on which planes they will use) as a primary air defence mission, and maybe capable of launching antiship missiles (the planes, that is).

But this has been discussed numerous times, so I will stop now.

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Why stop now? I am interested in some new arguements ..... and arguements in new context; it should clear up something more to me ....:china:

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

happy new year china