PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

Jovian said:

Just a thought...

The official (?) name of the J-15 being 飞鲨; thus translated as "Flying Shark" (飞 = fly, 鲨 = shark). Just wondered if the designers were thinking of another name instead.

I.e. "Flying Shark" ... was translated from "飞鲨", but was "飞鲨" translated from "Air Jaw"?

Another word, is it possible the designers have intended to name the J-15 after the white pointer sharks off the South African coast (aka "Air Jaws"), but the direct translation resulted it being referred as "Flying Sharks" instead?

PS. Just do a google search for "Air Jaws" and you are likely to come upon photos that explain why those whitepointers are called "Air Jaws". Kind of reminded me of the logo on the test plane, 554!

If that is the case, they have selected a fine name for this plane!

Well, just a though.
Jovian

Click to expand...

Good point! Those air jaws are amazing! Acrobatic and ferocious! The image of the shark on the plane does look like one of those air jaws jumping out of the ocean and hunting. Only air jaws adopt such curled up body position while in the air.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

Totoro said:

while so many aircraft could potentially be put on deck, hangar can not hold 25 planes and be operational. i hope images such as these weren't the basis for that claim as they're pure fantasy images. such crowded hangar would never happen.
View attachment 9368

Click to expand...

What would be a realistic arrangement of the aircraft in the hangar ?
These images of aircraft in the hangar always look as if it would be almost impossible to get to a particular aircraft.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

well, one moves the planes by having a tractor in front of their front LG move around. Which means planes need to be orientated butt first when going onto the elevator. Now imagine the problems with orientating planes parked like those in the image. there's no room.

And that's really not even how russians devised the plane handling in hangar of kuznetsov, nor how the chinese chose to use the russian design. theres a turntable in front of the elevator exits. russians put it there and use it, chinese kept it, refurbished it and as seen in some images, they still use it as devised.

One also wants to be able to reach all kinds of aircraft. If one parks several types of helicopters, one wants to be able to manouver them out of hangar and into hangar without having to reshuffle the entire hangar hold. In the image i provided that's impossible, most helicopters are really unavailable.

Then there's the fact that hangar is where some plane maintenance is done. it can not be done with so little room around the plane as in the image.

With all that being said, realistically, liaoning's hangar will not hold more than 16 j15 and several helicopters. Maybe 1-2 aircraft more could be crammed in, but certainly 24 j15 could not fit in an operationally meaningful way.

Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

SinoSoldier said:

Those are rumors which claim to have official backing, which I doubted at first, but do have a pretty nice history of credibility to them.

Apparently what happened was that the original plan to install AESA radar on J-15 was pushed back due to budget and time concerns, so instead they decided to start doing it in one of the later batches. While it is clear that all J-15 units are fully capable of combat, I do believe that it is the upgraded J-15s that will be the first air wing aboard the CV-16. Admiral Yin Zhuo subtly implied that he expects the J-15 to fully match, or even possibly exceed, the Super Hornet in air to air combat.

This, I believe, was the same situation with the Super Hornet.

Click to expand...

Well if the J-15s were OVT equipped, they would certainly be a step or two ahead possibly, depending on who's doing the driving, but as is, with the Navy and Marines flying the Super Hornet, I'd predict a fairly even match, as the Hornet is very agile.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

schenkus said:

What would be a realistic arrangement of the aircraft in the hangar ?
These images of aircraft in the hangar always look as if it would be almost impossible to get to a particular aircraft.

Click to expand...

Exactly! great statement by a newbee! Welcome to SDF!!

I posted this 03.23.2012;

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/nav...s-news-videos-photos-558-5683.html#post182635

you cannot cram that many aircraft in an hangar deck. It is not safe. I've mentioned this before. You need a fire lane. That fire lane is also used to move large object easily from one end of the ship to the other. You need wiggle room to move aircraft from the hangar deck to the flight deck and vice versa as they need repair and are repaired.

Click to expand...

And posted by me on 08.08.2011;

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/nav...s-news-videos-photos-403-5683.html#post157811

When ever I see those drawings with all the aircraft jammed into the hangar. Well that's not just going to work. You need room to move those aircraft to the roof. Move them in case of fire. And a fire lane is needed in case, once again, of fire. Also that fire lane is needed to move large objects from one end of the ship to the other. In the hangar deck room is also needed to store Ground Support Equipment such as aircraft dollies, Portable generators, engine stands Jacks. Extra engines. Hydraulic bowsers, forklifts , lox carts etc etc the list goes on.

Click to expand...

schenkus, just in case you do not know, I served aboard five carriers in my 20 year USN Carree.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

Totoro said:

while so many aircraft could potentially be put on deck, hangar can not hold 25 planes and be operational. i hope images such as these weren't the basis for that claim as they're pure fantasy images. such crowded hangar would never happen.
View attachment 9368

Click to expand...

That picture is not representative of how many aircraft would be stored in the hanger...and was never meant to be. It is meant to show the dimensions of the hanger. That is all.

The twenty five in the hanger would not be predominantly J-15s either. Maybe 12-15 J-15s and the rest helos.

Nice try though.

Here's the versions of my pictures that show a more accurate hanger arrangement of aircraft for the Liaoning and the Kuznetsov:

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

Totoro said:

...realistically, liaoning's hangar will not hold more than 16 j15 and several helicopters. Maybe 1-2 aircraft more could be crammed in, but certainly 24 j15 could not fit in an operationally meaningful way.

Click to expand...

24 J-15s or SU-33 were never meant to fit into the hanger.

I believe that you could fit twenty-three or twenty-four aircraft on deck max. 16-18 J-15s max and 6-8 helicopters. But that is in a very rare circumstance. Normally you would probably see at most 12-15 J-15s on deck and 3-4 helicopters.

In the hanger you could fir 12-14 J-15s and 10-12 helicopters. But that would also be rare. The normal will probably be more like 10-12 J-15s and 6-8 helos in the hanger.

Just depends on what they establish as the air wing in normal/standard conditions. They may go with squadrons of ten, instead of twelve, which would mean twenty J-15s.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

Jeff Head said:

That picture is not representative of how many aircraft would be stored in the hanger...and was never meant to be. It is meant to show the dimensions of the hanger. That is all.

The twenty five in the hanger would not be predominantly J-15s either. Maybe 12-15 J-15s and the rest helos.

Nice try though.

Here's the versions of my pictures that show a more accurate hanger arrangement of aircraft for the Liaoning and the Kuznetsov:

​

Click to expand...

Liaoning and Kuznetsov are sister ships, how come Liaoning's hanger shorter in height?

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

Navy ships. Or any shipping for that matter tend to differ from unit to unit as an improvements are made. Where objects like a car are uniform though out a production run. Two ships can start there construction in the same ship yard and end at roughly the same time be considered of the same class yet very drastically from each other. Particularly if its a highly specialized design of high value yet low run. In the case of Kundetzov and Varyang its likely that the finished product would have been identical in dimensions had the Russians completed Varyang. But as Liaoning the PLAN conducted a massive redesign as the hull they received was far from complete its likely that as part of installs of engines and Chinese critical systems the Liaoning hanger ended up losing some hight. If Kundetzov underwent the same modifications its likely she would also end up with a short ceiling too.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Air Wing look like?

SteelBird said:

Liaoning and Kuznetsov are sister ships, how come Liaoning's hanger shorter in height?

Click to expand...

The height on the Liaoning is a mistake. Both should be the same.

Sorry. Somehow I missed that. Probably just a typo. Back when I was doing it I was using cut and paste from an Excel file with the various dimensions for various carriers, and then pasting them into the text input on a graphics program.

Clearly, I messed up.

Again, thanks.