PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

If the Chinese navy already planned to give their domestic carrier waist catapults, what would be the reason to add a bow ramp instead of adding bow catapult as well?

Obviously catapult would give greater flexibility then the ramp, and low performance aircraft like AWAC, onboard delivery transport, and any future ASW aircraft probably would be unable to use the bow ramp. If waist catapults are down, those aircraft would be stuck.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

chuck731 said:

If the Chinese navy already planned to give their domestic carrier waist catapults, what would be the reason to add a bow ramp instead of adding bow catapult as well?

Obviously catapult would give greater flexibility then the ramp, and low performance aircraft like AWAC, onboard delivery transport, and any future ASW aircraft probably would be unable to use the bow ramp. If waist catapults are down, those aircraft would be stuck.

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My guess would be putting a cat on the bow section and 'flattening' the deck would mean a total redesign of the hull and for now I think PLAN would like to keep things as close to Liaoning as possible with a few modifications. Island may look a little different but the basic hull shape will most likely be the same. Most changes will probably occur on the inside.

If there's one thing we've learned is that PLAN is very methodical in their approach. No reason to totally risk everything on their first domestically produce carrier on something very unknown. Liaoning #2 will be a very good hands on for them w/o going totally out of their comfort zone in carrier design and development.
Their 3rd carrier I can almost guarantee will be a CATOBAR.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Deino said:

This one ???

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I KNEW it, it is the Electrio Mag CAT !!!!

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

kwaigonegin said:

She's a beaut!! My favorite ship so far. Very clean and sleek lines. Have some F-35Bs and SH-60Ks flying off her and she will become a very potent Sea Control ship.
If her task group consist of Aegis destroyers and Soryus, it will be a formidable grouping.

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Well, the thing to look for is a request within Japan and then to the US for some F-35B purchases. Right now the Japanese do not have any, and are not currently slated to buy any.

If they do, then this vessel and its sister ship coming out in a couple of years will surely end up flying some.

As to the grouping, they clearly would have either one Atago or one Kongo with them, probably an Akizuki, and then two of some mix of Murisame or Takanami DDGs.

As to the Soryus, although they are excellent SSKs with AIP, they are simply too slow to keep up with a carrier group like that at 28-30 knots.

The Soryu's speed is 13 knots surfaced and 20 knots submerged...and that submerged speed is not a cruise speed where they keep at it for great amounts of time. So they, like all SSKs, are great for choke points, for the littorals, and for acting on solid intel regarding where ships will be at a certain time and then laying in wait for them.

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

why do indian navy choose skid jump for next carrier,when they can simple purchase CAT and assisstant from the US?

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

I think part of their selection came form the fact that they had more time using STOL then CATBAR. rember the INS Viraat
uses Sea Harriers. Also with the Indian Navy buying the INS Vikramaditya and modifying it from The Russian Admiral Gorshkov heavy modification had to happen to the Fore deck. When she was the Admiral Gorshkov her fore deck was covered with missiles as the INS Vikramaditya that deck is needed for fighters. Finally Came the planing to use Russian Migs.
I have never seen any data on launch of SU33 or Mig29K form a cat nor have I hear of any attempt The Indians may have decided to stay in the Mig's Comfort zone and go STOBAR rather then risk potentially having the wheels ripped off.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

That doesn't make all that much sense to me. In terms of flight deck design, Varyag's ramp was designed by the soviets based on as little operational experience as the Chinese have now. In terms of ship structure design, the Chinese are probably adept now at using more sophisticated design techniques and more advanced fabrication and construction techniques than was available to the Soviets. So it doesn't seem reasonable to me the Chinese designers would hesitate to raze that ramp if their operations people tells their designers that catapults are preferred.

I am thinking it is more likely their operations people have no confidence that their catapults would be ready for prime time when their new carrier is ready, so they instructed their designers to hedged.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

By using all catapult design. Existing carrier wings like J-15 and J-15S will need modification on its front gear in order to be useful on the new carrier with catapult only.

By using a catapult and ramp design. J-15 and future carrier fighter can both co exist on the new carrier while J-15 can still be use on CV-16 liaoning.

If fighter jet is on intercepting mission, I believe a light load of few WVRAAM and AMRAAM with full fuel is able to take off from the ramp for defending fleet. Catapult is not neccessary.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

OFF TOPIC

one thing come to mind about rebuilding a carrier was USS midway, the original Midway CV-41 commission nin 1945,without CAT

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Oh no...incorrect. The Midway was built with two bow Hydraulic catapults and had major re-fits from '55-'57 and '66-'70'.

Midway would be 986 feet overall in length, the longest
U.S. warship built up to that time. The carrier would have
three elevators and two hydraulic catapults,

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The Midway still serves as a museum ship in San Diego CA.



End off topic..

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

TerraN_EmpirE said:

I think part of their selection came form the fact that they had more time using STOL then CATBAR. rember the INS Viraat
uses Sea Harriers. Also with the Indian Navy buying the INS Vikramaditya and modifying it from The Russian Admiral Gorshkov heavy modification had to happen to the Fore deck. When she was the Admiral Gorshkov her fore deck was covered with missiles as the INS Vikramaditya that deck is needed for fighters. Finally Came the planing to use Russian Migs.
I have never seen any data on launch of SU33 or Mig29K form a cat nor have I hear of any attempt The Indians may have decided to stay in the Mig's Comfort zone and go STOBAR rather then risk potentially having the wheels ripped off.

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There are many reasons to stay with the ramp, simplicity, no need for the increased complexity of maintenance/tweaking to launch each individual aircraft, load your aircraft, stage it and launch. As you rightly state, there has been No provision for catobar launch capability by Su-33 or Mig-29K. brat