PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

A.Man said:

That is what in Jiangnan-your guess is as good as mine

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Now these looks more like a construction of a large cargo ship. The mysterious picture shows a more completed flat top and island.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

Equation said:

Now these looks more like a construction of a large cargo ship. The mysterious picture shows a more completed flat top and island.

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Another possiblility for these pictures is that this is a cross sectional major structural support, with the hanger deck being the cutout through it, and the flat top above being the flight deck.

Not saying that is the case, but it could also be an explanation.

Time will tell.

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

The Vikramaditya doesn't come with any CIWS systems and will be fitted in 2017 with a Israeli India system the Barak 8. The picture of that rocket we saw fired from the ship was likely a decoy rather than a defensive missile.

INS Vikramaditya, already 5 years late, to wait 3 years more for anti-missile defence system

Long-delayed Indo-Israeli anti-missile system to be tried this month

The aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, formerly the Admiral Gorshkov, which is expected to join the Indian Navy later this year, is already late by 5 years and its price has risen three-fold from $947 million in 2004 to $2.3 billion today. It now emerges that for the next 3 years or so, INS Vikramaditya will function without effective defences against anti-ship missiles --- a key threat to warships today.

For this the Russians are not to blame --- the Israelis are. The futuristic missile defence system that was supposed to be fitted on the Vikramaditya, called the Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM), is also late by at least 3 years. The LR-SAM is a missile, fired from a warship to shoot down an incoming anti-ship missiles at ranges out to 70 kilometres. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) is developing the LR-SAM in partnership with the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO).

On Thursday, Vice Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral RK Dhowan, said in New Delhi that the Vikramaditya would arrive without a 'close in weapons system' (CIWS, pronounced sea-whiz), a ship-borne system to destroy incoming missiles and aircraft. The navy will fit an AK-630 rapid-fire gun system on the Vikramaditya when it arrives, but the more potent LR-SAM will only be fitted during the aircraft carrier’s first refit. That would be at least three years down the line.

Given these continuing delays, the navy’s ageing INS Virat --- already half a century old --- will continue in service till 2018. The INS Vikrant, the aircraft carrier that is being built in Cochin Shipyard Ltd, is being launched on Aug 12, but will only enter operational service by end-2018, says Dhowan.

The LR-SAM was to be ready by 2011 for equipping three Indian destroyers that Mazagon Dock Ltd is building in Mumbai under the so-called Project 15A. The LR-SAM delay has held up Project 15A, with INS Kolkata, the first warship in this series, having floating in the docks for the last seven years. INS Chennai and INS Kochi, the other two destroyers in Project 15A are delayed too.

But there is light at the end of this tunnel. Business Standard has learnt that a DRDO team is heading for Israel for the first 'hot test' of the LR-SAM this month. This will check out all the missile systems --- detection, propulsion, guidance, command and control --- functioning in tandem. While the radar, control and navigation systems were tested last year, this will be the first test of the entire system functioning together.

Says DRDO chief, Dr Avinash Chander, 'The crucial part of the test will be the missile’s ability to perform manoeuvres. After this full-configuration test, we will carry out trials next year from a ship.'

'There are always uncertainties when one is developing a system of a technology class that exists nowhere in the world.'

In exclusive briefings at the DRDO’s missile cluster in Hyderabad, Business Standard was told that the Israeli company is developing the front section of the LR-SAM, including the seeker head that guides the missile, the front controller, command electronics, and the explosive warhead that destroys the target.

The DRDO has developed the rear section, including the two-pulse rocket motor, the rear controller, the thrust vector control and the folded fins. DRDO scientists and designers have also participated in the Israeli part of the development.

The LR-SAM is made especially deadly by its two-pulse rocket motor. The first pulse propels the missile towards the incoming target; while a ship-borne radar tracks the enemy missile continuously, transmitting course corrections to the LR-SAM. When the LR-SAM is near the target, its seeker locks onto the target, taking on the job of guidance. Simultaneously, the rocket motor fires its second pulse, imparting to the LR-SAM a high velocity that leaves the target with little time to manoeuvre. The LR-SAM has both front and rear steering, which allows it to manoeuvre sharply, remaining locked onto even a twisting and turning target.

Once tested and proven, many LR-SAM components will be built in India. The DRDO says it has developed suppliers within Indian industry, with two vendors developed for each sub-system. For example, Godrej and SEC, a company in Hyderabad, will build the two-pulse rocket motor.

A ground-based version of the LR-SAM is simultaneously being developed for the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is desperately short of air defence systems.

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Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

Hendrik_2000 said:

Where is Asif Igbal?

Hongjian at CDF just posted what could be type 75 picture out in the open. After many false start It could be it with big IF. It has the contour of LHD or Bulk Carrier

Anyone? go there and download the photo

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Holy Smokey!!! theres a angle here, the site looks like it has the set-up for a carrier or very large LHD

this is a big development and it seems like its gone un-noticed up till now, a Chinese flat top which is displaceing some serious tonnage

btw its not "g" its "q", its Asif Iqbal

ReLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

This is what I think it is.



The superstructure of a merchant vessel...

Some one will ask, What's the large open area in the middle on the thumbnail photos? I'll say, that's for the bridge and future compartments.

And if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. I hope it is a CV/LHD/LHP/LHA..I really do.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

I would suggest to wait and see we don't want to look foolish if its a large cargo ship or something else.

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

no_name said:

The head section is rumoured to be in that building circled in black.

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Is this pic PSed? How could wall climbers miss something so huge till now?

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

cn_habs said:

Is this pic PSed? How could wall climbers miss something so huge till now?

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it all depends on how much China wants to show, no one seen Y-20 or J-20 coming, we see only what Chinese authoritys want us to see

J-31 was paraded around on a back of a truck through inner citys we all seen, obviously the authoritys have control over what they want and do not want to show, and also when to show

Re: PLAN LHD/LPH/LHA discussion

bd popeye said:

I really don't see how you fellows get an CV/LHD/LPH/LHA out of those photos. Really.. Has anything in those photos been confirmed as an CV/LHD/LPH/LHA?

And that link to Shanghai Hobby does not load up..for me.

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These pics of the cross section are pics that have come out since the one that started all of the discussion.

That one is a little more intriguing. Here it is:


I have blown this up and enhanced it. Still, the shadows and what not make it hard to tell if the structure on the starboard side amidships is an isand, and if the aft port quarter indentation is an elevator. They could easily be just structure of a cargo/container type vessel.

But the shadows do make it look an awful lot like an LHD/LPH at this distance and we will know soon enough because it looks well along.

Re: Aircraft Carriers II

New news...which could represent a significant build-up and major upgrade to JMSDF capabilities if it proceeds to construction and deployment. Right now it appears to be a proposal from the Japanese Technical Research and Development Institute which is a part of the ministry of defense.

This Technical Research and Development Institute has apparently proposed another new carrier vessel for the Japanese Maritime Self defense Force (JMSDF). This is in addition to the two Hyuga Class (16DDH) vessels already built and the two Kaga Class (22DDH) vessels which are currently building.

These new vessels would displace 24,000 tons each, but would not include additional troop or cargo/vehicle transport capabilities (as the Hyuga and Kaga Classes do) and would thus increase the size of its air wing. In addition, these vessels are apparently being purpose designed for fixed wing aircraft operations. Here is a write up regarding the proposed new carriers from a 21C forum announcing and discussing projects from the Technical Research and Development Institute in Japan:

26DDH Aircraft Carrier

26DDH is a new major Japanese destroyer program. The 26DDH is being designed with its primary function to provide long-range air-defense, with secondary roles providing anti-surface warfare, anti-submarine warfare, and serving as a command and control vessel. This vessel is designed with lessons and technologies derived from other recent destroyer programs (the Atago class, the Hyuga class, the Akizuki class and the Kaga Class) while also representing a doctrinal shift in Japanese maritime defense thinking. This shift will blend the technologies already implemented in other new Japanese military ship designs in a unique way, allowing the ships to fulfill their missions. As such, these vessels will not be comparable to any other JMSDF class in service today. One way of explaining their primary function is to compare them to historical precedents. If existing Japanese helicopter destroyers like the Hyuga and Kaga classes would be compared to the escort carriers during World War II, then these new vessels would be comparable to the Sea Control ship proposed in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s by the US Navy.

Accordingly, the ship’s primary mission is to harness its survivability, range, and the power of naval aviation in order to defend Japanese territory and sea lanes. As such, each ship will be designed to carry one squadron of aircraft for fleet and air defense, one squadron of aircraft for anti-submarine warfare, and one squadron of aircraft for long-range sensing. These three squadrons will make up the primary weapons system of the ship. The three aviation squadrons will provide four salient capabilities for the fleet; fleet/air defense, anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, and recon/search functions. The 26DDH will focus on the deployment of fixed-wing aviation, with emphasis on extended range over existing JMSDF capabilities and all-weather operations. This air wing will be comprised of twelve (12) F-35B attack/fighter aircraft, eight (8) V-22 Osprey aircraft, and four (4) SH-60K helicopters. The Ospreys will provide enhanced cargo, ASW, ASuW, and AEW&C capabilities for the fleet.

In terms of the ship design itself, the 26DDH will be 3,000 tons smaller than the preceding Kaga-class, but they will have a larger air-wing. This will be accomplished by eliminating provisions for troop transport, or other cargo transport beyond what is required for the stated missions of the ship. Improved automation will also reduce the crew of the ship substantially. Despite its smaller size, the 26DDH will be longer than the Kaga-class to improve the ease of short-takeoff operations, therby also increasing the range and weapons capacity of the aircraft deployed on-board. The 26DDH will also have a larger self defense capability than the other JMSDF vessels of the Kaga and Hyuga classes. This will consist of adding peripheral VLS (Mk 57) cells for an area defense capability as a compliment to the area defense capabilities of its AEGIS and/or Akizuki escorts. These VLS cells will carry both Standard and ESSM missiles. In addition, the vessels will carry two 21 cell RAM missile launchers, and two 20mm Phalanx CIWS.

The first ship is expected to be ordered in 2014, and commissioned in 2018. The cost of each ship will be $1.5 Billion. Two ships of the class are proposed to be included in each of the JMSDF destroyer flotillas. If this holds true, then it will mean that the production run of the 26DDH vessels will be significantly larger than those of the Hyuga and Kaga classes which produced two vessels each, and would produce a total of eight of these vessels

Specifications:

Displacement: 24,000t (full)
Length: 250m (812 ft)
Beam: 35m (123 ft)
Draft: 7.5m (25 ft)
Propulsion: COGAG, two shafts
Speed: 32kt
Range: 15,000km at 15 knots
Crew: 800
Sensors:
- ATECS OYQ-11 CDS Battle Management System
- FCS-3A Anti-air Warfare Aystem
- OPS-50 Surface Search Radar
- OQQ-22 Integrated Hull Sonar
- OQR-3 Towed Array
Aircraft:
- 12 x F-35B attack/fighter Aircraft
- 08 x HV-22 Osprey Aircraft
- 04 x SH-60K Helicopters
Armament:
- 2 x Sea RAM (21 missiles each for a total of 42)
- 2 x 20mm Phalanx
- 8 x Mk 57 4-cell modules (32 cells)

I am still looking for photos/pics of this design, although I imagine it will be very close in appearance to the Kaga Class (22DDH), the first of which is nearing launch in Japan at this time.