PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

panzerkom said:

I've read your page, Jeff. It's very informative. Thank you.

But I still think it is next to impossible to install a propulsion system capable of powering the Varyag in complete secrecy. I mean it would be tough to hide 2-deck high boilers if they kept the original steam turbine design; or to a lesser extent, 60'x40'x40' 2-stroke marine diesel engines if they are converting to diesel.

Click to expand...

Well, nothing can be done in true, complete secrecy.

The question is, could it be done and be kept from the press. I believe in China, it could have been...but time will tell.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

panzerkom said:

I've read your page, Jeff. It's very informative. Thank you.

But I still think it is next to impossible to install a propulsion system capable of powering the Varyag in complete secrecy. I mean it would be tough to hide 2-deck high boilers if they kept the original steam turbine design; or to a lesser extent, 60'x40'x40' 2-stroke marine diesel engines if they are converting to diesel.

Click to expand...

Well, nothing can be done in true, complete secrecy.

The question is, could it be done and be kept from the press. I believe in China, it could have been...but time will tell.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

panzerkom said:

I've read your page, Jeff. It's very informative. Thank you.

But I still think it is next to impossible to install a propulsion system capable of powering the Varyag in complete secrecy. I mean it would be tough to hide 2-deck high boilers if they kept the original steam turbine design; or to a lesser extent, 60'x40'x40' 2-stroke marine diesel engines if they are converting to diesel.

Click to expand...

Well, nothing can be done in true, complete secrecy.

The question is, could it be done and be kept from the press. I believe in China, it could have been...but time will tell.

Re: Future PLAN Carrier Borne Aircraft

the secret of B-2,F-35 and F-22 stealth technology is not just hardware,but the solfware.this is according miltech.
this is why USAF continue refusal to provide solfware to the brit.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:

Agreed that in the long run a couple of years is not going to make much difference...except you will see other nations use that time to buid in response themselves ie. South Korea and Japan among others.

Not much being said about it...but, IMHO, in the region there is a significant naval modernization and even naval arms race underway in this regard.

Click to expand...

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:

Agreed that in the long run a couple of years is not going to make much difference...except you will see other nations use that time to buid in response themselves ie. South Korea and Japan among others.

Not much being said about it...but, IMHO, in the region there is a significant naval modernization and even naval arms race underway in this regard.

Click to expand...

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:

Agreed that in the long run a couple of years is not going to make much difference...except you will see other nations use that time to buid in response themselves ie. South Korea and Japan among others.

Not much being said about it...but, IMHO, in the region there is a significant naval modernization and even naval arms race underway in this regard.

Click to expand...

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

crobato said:

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Click to expand...

Agree with all you said. But Japan is capable of producing aircraft if they want, and they certainly could change...or, more likely...stretch their constitution for a time if they feel the need.

Either way, after looking hard at the two platforms (Dokdo and Hyuga) I do not believe either one, even if outfitted with F-35s, would be as capable as the Varyag or what the Chinese will probably produce with their indigenous designs.

Capable vessels, no doubt, but really not in the same class as a Varyag or larger sized carrier.

They would either compliment US forces, or have to build something bigger themselves. Not likely IMHO for S. Korea...but a possibility for Japan in a few years.

All of that is, of course, simply my own opinion.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

crobato said:

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Click to expand...

Agree with all you said. But Japan is capable of producing aircraft if they want, and they certainly could change...or, more likely...stretch their constitution for a time if they feel the need.

Either way, after looking hard at the two platforms (Dokdo and Hyuga) I do not believe either one, even if outfitted with F-35s, would be as capable as the Varyag or what the Chinese will probably produce with their indigenous designs.

Capable vessels, no doubt, but really not in the same class as a Varyag or larger sized carrier.

They would either compliment US forces, or have to build something bigger themselves. Not likely IMHO for S. Korea...but a possibility for Japan in a few years.

All of that is, of course, simply my own opinion.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

crobato said:

Japan is constrained by its own constitution and to purchase fighters from outside its a very expensive proposition. S. Korea faces the cost proposition as well. On the other hand, China will build their own warplanes for this, and being a jobs subsidy makes it easier for politicians to hand out a check.

Anytime you have a nation with a defense industry of its own, vs. a nation that has to buy its equipment from outside, its much easier, politically, to approve a program.

Do note the article is Asahi Shinbun. Its a reputable newspaper but its not the lion's mouth like Xinhua. The years stated maybe subject to change or reporting error as per the actual account, which has not been officially reported yet.

Click to expand...

Agree with all you said. But Japan is capable of producing aircraft if they want, and they certainly could change...or, more likely...stretch their constitution for a time if they feel the need.

Either way, after looking hard at the two platforms (Dokdo and Hyuga) I do not believe either one, even if outfitted with F-35s, would be as capable as the Varyag or what the Chinese will probably produce with their indigenous designs.

Capable vessels, no doubt, but really not in the same class as a Varyag or larger sized carrier.

They would either compliment US forces, or have to build something bigger themselves. Not likely IMHO for S. Korea...but a possibility for Japan in a few years.

All of that is, of course, simply my own opinion.