The F-22 and B-2's stealth features significantly reduce the envelope of coverage by SAMs like the S-400, so let's not pretend S-400 is some kind of cure-all for the PLAAF and PLAN's hurdles in achieving air superiority enough for ASW planes to roam free along China's coastline. If the S-400 could attack an F-22 at 100km I would already be impressed, to speak nothing of the S-300 and HQ-9.
PLAN ASW Capability
- Thread starter shen
- Start date
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
You do know that China has anti stealth radar they said they can track F22 landing and take off in Korea
So all you have to do is provide cuing to those missile
I am pretty sure they are working hard on such capability right now!
As I said before stealth has short shelve life just like yogurt !. Sooner or latter somebody will find antidote against it
Even the US air force recognize it and the spec for 6 generation does not put too much emphasize on stealth
Anti-stealth radar can't cue any missiles of any kind. All they can do is to let you know there is a target in a given sector of the sky. You can "cue" the S-400's search radar in that general direction all you want, but if the search radar isn't capable against the F-22's stealth features you still aren't going to get a weapons quality track until the F-22 approaches very close. Anti-stealth radars are best for cueing friendly fighters towards a target; they will do nothing to increase the targeting range of a missile system against a stealth target. And I have no idea where you get the idea that the USAF "does not put too much emphasize on stealth". Maybe you can cite a link which says the USAF isn't putting "too much" emphasis on stealth. 6th gen fighter concepts actually are talking about developing the ability to defeat not just higher frequencies but also the lower frequency bands like L, UHF and VHF.
The range of tomahawks launched from virginias is over 1000 km, means the patrol has to cover areas way beyond any coastal SAM batteries.
Reason why they making the islands in the South Chinese Sea.
The bases - ship based radars and aircraft carriers augment each other and making a protective "shell " for the anti submarine aircrafts , Chinese hunter subs and sensor network nodes.
And the coastal SAMs are taking care of the Tomahawks launched by the surviving Virginias.
The most important thing for China is to convince Vietnam / Philippines / Thailand to NOT to let the US to install bases onto they soils.
Reason why they making the islands in the South Chinese Sea.
The bases - ship based radars and aircraft carriers augment each other and making a protective "shell " for the anti submarine aircrafts , Chinese hunter subs and sensor network nodes.
And the coastal SAMs are taking care of the Tomahawks launched by the surviving Virginias.
The most important thing for China is to convince Vietnam / Philippines / Thailand to NOT to let the US to install bases onto they soils.
They can.
The Mie/Rayleight scattering giving unique return based on the macro geometrical features of the missile, and the direction of missile compared to the source of radiation.
They use this for particle count/grading in liquids/air.
Additionally, the data received from the UHV/VHF search radar used to target the higher frequency radars onto the target zone.
That means the S/X band radars s doesn't need to scan for threats , only for high energy identification/terminal targeting, so the effective range of these radars are dramatically improved against low observable aircrafts.
And they try to do something against the VHF/UHF, but the physic is not on they side in this quest.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
I am not sure why you said so because the nebo has L band radar component
The Protivnik-GE and Gamma-DE radars, integrated with the 92H6E radar system, enables communication between each battery with Baikal-E senior command posts and similar types; nearby 30К6Е, 83М6Е and 83М6Е2 administration systems; the Polyana-D4М1 command post; fighter-aircraft command post, and mobile long-range radars. The Nebo-M system is designed to hunt the F-35 joint-strike fighter. The system's VHF component provides sector search and tracking, with the X- and L-band components providing fine-tracking capability. Good placement of the radars relative to the threat axis enables the L- and X-band components to illuminate the incoming target from angles where the target is sub-optimal. Attempts to jam the Nebo-M would be problematic,
Other technology
That news was from 2016 Since then A1 technology goes thru leap and bound combine that with computer I don't foreclose the possibility that they improve the cuing of the missile using A1 technology
A lot of other technology like ghost imaging, quantum radar are in the work right now. I can't proof it because most of the technology are highly classified . Anyone believe that 40000 lb plane can disappear from the sky must be dreaming
The Chinese said they have a working model and try to improve their range
Anyway what prevent them from sending J20, J16 or any other fighter to find F22 once they are known in the area?
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At the end of the day there is a reason why Turkey wants more the S400 than the F35.
We have gotten way offtopic here but i would like to point out two things:
1. Existing Russian SAMs like the S-300 and S-400 are not much of a threat to the F-22. Remember that the F-22 was designed specifically to fly into airspace protected by advanced Russian double-digit SAMs. Even if by some (unlikely) means these systems manage to detect and track the F-22 at a sufficiently long range, at the altitude and speed the F-22 flies, it is capable of easily out running any large SAM launched at it. The 400km range S-400 missile, for example, is not sufficiently maneuvrable (even more so at the altitude an F-22 flies) to be able to hit a F-22 and the F-22's defensive systems allow it to stay out of the lethal radius of more maneuvrable and shorter range SAMs when in contested airspace.
The truth is that, in the absence of any peer aircraft like the J-20, an aircraft like the F-22 is at a big advantage against all ground/ship based air defenses and it will be able to evade shipborne defenses and easily pick off flying targets like patrol aircraft over the ocean before it can be engaged by them. Unless there is a revolutionary advance in sensors that renders the F-22's stealth irrelevant. So far, this hasn't happened, notwithstanding Russian claims of VHF/UHF radars' capabilities, but, a hint of something having come out that has made the F-22 vulnerable in the air will be the USAF going all in on a replacement for the F-22.
2. Turkey wanting the S400 so badly has more to do with its IFF system being from a non-NATO/non-US source. S-400 is an insurance against an eventuality where Turkey may find itself in conflict with a NATO country or a US ally. Turkey is also hedging its bets. Should the Europeans have a change of heart for some reason about the SAM/ABM they are jointly developing with Turkey, the S400 deal will give Turkey an alternative partner they can collaborate with. They wasted a decade trying to acquire such systems from the US, and the US was willing to share the technology with India, a soviet/russian client till now, but not with Turkey, its NATO ally for 50 years.
1. Existing Russian SAMs like the S-300 and S-400 are not much of a threat to the F-22. Remember that the F-22 was designed specifically to fly into airspace protected by advanced Russian double-digit SAMs. Even if by some (unlikely) means these systems manage to detect and track the F-22 at a sufficiently long range, at the altitude and speed the F-22 flies, it is capable of easily out running any large SAM launched at it. The 400km range S-400 missile, for example, is not sufficiently maneuvrable (even more so at the altitude an F-22 flies) to be able to hit a F-22 and the F-22's defensive systems allow it to stay out of the lethal radius of more maneuvrable and shorter range SAMs when in contested airspace.
The truth is that, in the absence of any peer aircraft like the J-20, an aircraft like the F-22 is at a big advantage against all ground/ship based air defenses and it will be able to evade shipborne defenses and easily pick off flying targets like patrol aircraft over the ocean before it can be engaged by them. Unless there is a revolutionary advance in sensors that renders the F-22's stealth irrelevant. So far, this hasn't happened, notwithstanding Russian claims of VHF/UHF radars' capabilities, but, a hint of something having come out that has made the F-22 vulnerable in the air will be the USAF going all in on a replacement for the F-22.
2. Turkey wanting the S400 so badly has more to do with its IFF system being from a non-NATO/non-US source. S-400 is an insurance against an eventuality where Turkey may find itself in conflict with a NATO country or a US ally. Turkey is also hedging its bets. Should the Europeans have a change of heart for some reason about the SAM/ABM they are jointly developing with Turkey, the S400 deal will give Turkey an alternative partner they can collaborate with. They wasted a decade trying to acquire such systems from the US, and the US was willing to share the technology with India, a soviet/russian client till now, but not with Turkey, its NATO ally for 50 years.
now coming back on topic: The PLAN's capital warships and carrier battle groups will not be lurking in coastal waters during a war. They will be far at sea: in the Pacific and Indian ocean and thats where USN subs will target them. The PLAN will have to find, track and attack enemy subs in the near seas and oceans as well, and not just in its coastal waters.