PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

latenlazy

Brigadier
Again if assuming that this is legit it actually gives a bit of info:

New carrier likely use EM cat,
Nuclear powered
At least 4 catapult, which would imply they may make it a supercarrier.
Given the large electric power needed - an all-electric drive.
And also another thread mentioned about testing energy based CIWS on test ship soon.

If all this is true they may wait 5 years for everything to be ready before construction of such a class as the admiral said. Or they might construct an intermediate in between.

This sounds like A LOT of things to test, and while I'm sure they can expedite the testing with land installations (one reason why I think Jeff Head's estimates are slightly slower than mine), I can't see them putting this many new technologies onto the second hull. My guess is they're starting testing right now but they won't be putting every one of these new technologies onto the second hull, but the third one. EMAL might end up on a carrier before the nuclear reactor. I can see them installing one onto the second hull, in part because of China's familiarity with electromagnetic rail technologies, but I can't see them taking that risk with a nuclear reactor.
 
Last edited:

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
This sounds like A LOT of things to test, and while I'm sure they can expedite the testing with land installations (one reason why I think Jeff Head's estimates are slightly slower than mine), I can't see them putting this many new technologies onto the second hull. My guess is they're starting testing right now but they won't be every one of these new technologies onto the second hull, but the third one. The EMAL might end up on a carrier before the nuclear reactor. I can see them installing one onto the second hull, in part because of China's familiarity with electromagnetic rail technologies, but I can't see them taking that risk with a nuclear reactor.

However EMAL required very high energy input, which boils down to whether conventional generator could achieve such high output without becoming too large by itself. This is also why, I am abit sceptical on the EMAL system.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
However EMAL required very high energy input, which boils down to whether conventional generator could achieve such high output without becoming too large by itself. This is also why, I am abit sceptical on the EMAL system.

Integrated Electric Propulsion Systems should be a good stand in. Latch together a few QC280s and you'll be able to propel a 70k ton carrier quite reliably, with enough juice to power a couple of EMALS. We actually heard a news report a few weeks back on how the maritime industry made a breakthrough in IEPS.

If this EMALS rumour is true, then things may actually end up falling into place quite well for the 70k catobar carrier mentioned at DL... But then again it could all be vapourware.
 

Engineer

Major
However EMAL required very high energy input, which boils down to whether conventional generator could achieve such high output without becoming too large by itself. This is also why, I am abit sceptical on the EMAL system.

Steam catapult requires even higher energy input due to inefficiencies.
 

Franklin

Captain
There are more and more indications that the J-15 has entered mass production. But there are also reports that the J-15 is unable to launch anti ship or ground attack missions with the ski jump of the Liaoning. Because with a full load the J-15 is too heavy to take off from the ski jump. But it also seems that the designers of the J-15 has already factored in a future use of the plane with catapults as the front wheels indicates.

China’s Carrier-Based J-15 Likely Enters Mass Production

A number of recent reports in Chinese state-run media indicate that the country’s carrier-based J-15 multirole fighter jets have entered mass production.

The Shenyang J-15 (also called Flying Shark) is China’s carrier-based fighter aircraft. It was reversed engineered from a Russian Sukhoi Su-33 that China acquired from Ukraine, although it reportedly is equipped with some indigenous weapons, avionics and other features that Beijing claims greatly enhances its capabilities. The J-15 is also powered by the Chinese-built Taihang (WS-10) turbofan engine.

A J-15 prototype conducted its first flight test in August 2009. In November last year it was announced that a PLA Air Force (PLAAF) pilot conducted the first take-off and landing from China’s aircraft carrier, Liaoning, using one of the J-15 tester jets. Throughout 2013 the PLAAF has continued holding take-off and landing exercises using the J-15 aircraft.

The People’s Daily Online carried a couple of reports this week on the J-15. Most of them begin by noting that “many keen military observers” have noted that the J-15s that have appeared on CCTV as of late have been painted gray with a People’s Republic of China flag on them, in contrast to the initial five J-15s that were painted yellow and were therefore marked as being intended solely for testing and development. The reports then note that the new paint job has led these “keen military observers” to speculate that the J-15 fighters have entered mass production.

One of the reports then asks Yin Zhuo, which it identifies only as a military analyst but who is also a former Rear Admiral in the PLA Navy (PLAN), to comment on this speculation. Admiral Yin begins by affirming that there has not been an official announcement yet on whether the J-15s have entered mass production, but nonetheless judges that the “navy paint finish on the J-15 indicates that it is now in formal service.”

He is then quoted as that online speculation about whether the aircraft has entered into mass production is “logical based on the facts that J-15 is already in service, and its technology is mature enough for mass production.” The rest of the article is devoted to Admiral Yin discussing what the implications will be if the J-15s have entered mass production, including the aircraft’s service life, which he estimates at 25-30 years.

“Once mass production is under way,” the People’s Daily paraphrases Admiral Yin as saying, “the aircraft design will be fixed other than in terms of possible changes to radar and electronic communication systems, or modernization of the engine after 10 to 15 years of service. However, the profile, basic finish, and performance standards of the aircraft have been established.”

Although hardly conclusive, the reports strongly suggest that mass production of the J-15 has begun, or at least that the Communist Party wants to create that impression.

Notably, the reports coincide with the Commander of PLAN, Admiral Wu Shengli, visiting the United States. The commander of the Liaoning carrier and the pilot who first landed on the carrier last November are accompanying Admiral Wu on the trip, according to Reuters.

“We have around 36 airplanes operating on board our ship,” Captain Zhang Zheng, the Liaoning commander told reporters in Washington this week, referring to aircraft carrier. “And we are still practicing and doing tests and experiments for the equipment and systems.”

Admiral Wu, on the other hand, told reporters that the Liaoning is just for training and experimentation and after a “final evaluation” the PLAN will decide on the development of a new aircraft carrier for the service.

Meanwhile, one of the other J-15 articles that appeared on the People’s Daily website compared it favorably relative to other countries’ carrier-based aircraft. Indeed, Admiral Yin, who was also quoted in that article, is paraphrased as saying that the J-15 “reaches a similar level to the U.S. F/A-18C/D Super Hornet” and is superior in terms of its air combat capability.

However, Want China Times flags a Xinhua report that quotes Sun Cong, the J-15s designer, noting that currently the aircraft cannot launch attacks against ships and ground targets when taking off from the Liaoning. That is because the aircraft carrier utilizes a ski-jump ramp and the J-15 would be too heavy to take off if it was carrying air-to-surface missiles and bombs. Thus, until the Navy acquires a Catapult-Assisted Take-Off But Arrested-Recovery (CATOBAR) carrier, the J-15, which is a multirole fighter, will be limited primarily to air superiority operations (and ship defense).

Notably, one of the People’s Daily reports observed that the J-15’s “front wheel is suitable for catapult launch similar to the carrier-based fighter of the U.S. Navy. The catapult launch was taken into consideration at the beginning of its design.”


In that context, Admiral Wu’s comments seem very interesting indeed.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



J-15 a major threat to US (but can't take off with payload)

To give China's first carrier-based fighter the ability to launch an attack against ships and ground targets, the designer of the aircraft said that the PLA Navy must acquire catapults for its carriers in the future, reports state newswire Xinhua.

The J-15 at present relies on the ski-jump ramp of the carrier Liaoning to launch. If the plane is carrying a full payload, however, it will be too heavy to take off, said the plane's designer Sun Cong.

The fighter's landing gear would need to be modified for catapult launch, which Sun estimates would make the plane 300kg heavier, though this can be offset by 100kg by removing the plane's canard.

As the only fighter capable of carrying air-to-surface missiles and bombs, the J-15 can be truly considered a multirole combat aircraft in striking against air, sea and ground targets. Since the F/A-18 Super Hornet will be produced as the main carried-based fighters of the US Navy until 2040, the J-15, also known as Flying Shark, will become its major challenge for at least the next 20 years.

This new type of fighter is likely to enter the PLA Navy by 2020 according to Xinhua. The J-15 will still be a tough opponent for the US Navy even after it acquires the F-35C in the future. The F-35C lacks the ability to attack large vessels like the Liaoning and other surface combat vessels of the PLA Navy, according to the report.

Xinhua said the J-15 has the capability to launch anti-ship missions against US warships under the escort of stealth fighters such as the J-20 and J-31. With good coordination, even a fourth-generation fighter like the J-15 can impose a serious threat to the US fleet in the Pacific, Xinhua said.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

ladioussupp

Junior Member
Do we understand this as it was meant? Is it the correct translation?

Captain missed a Chinese word in speech. So it should be translated as 36 sorties, not 36 airplanes.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The size is not as large as the US one. We have run 36 air plane operation, operating on board our ship, we are still practicing and doing tests and experiments for the equipment and system. In the future we will make progress。
 
Last edited:

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Language of the report suggests that Chinese are doing a lot of work and research into aircraft flying off carriers, hardly a suprise
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Do we understand this as it was meant? Is it the correct translation?

Terminology might be the reason but it could be he meant that it takes 36 aircraft by adding in the helos theres no reason why they can't have 36 aircraft, that's 24 J-15 and 12 helos

However he said that the next carrier needs to be CATOBAR to have land attack and anti-ship capability which goes against what we have been thinking and seeing, that's the fact that a STOBAR is under construction at Dalian the pictutes and images we seen last few weeks

Why make another STOBAR when the current one isn't enough?

Either he is playing down the J15 capabilitys which would not suprise me or the next carrier is actually CATOBAR and not STOBAR

My personal opinion is that J15 can do anti-ship and surface attack from Ski jump and that it is not only a air superiority fighter
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top