PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
big shrimps who claim that 002 got to be steam ususully use the following two arguments:

1. China urgently need carriers with cat, no further delay is allowed, steam is ready and mature, EM is not;

2. 002 design has passed the "tech freeze-up" time, the door has been shut.

after the emerging of the J-20, the development of J-10 has been de-classified, we now know all the major systems were developed during the long 18 years, if there's sth called "tech freeze-up", we probably would never see the J-10.

Not sure about military term regarding the "Tech Freeze Up", but in the industry that I am working in, there is such a thing like a tech freeze up or design close time. It is where design had finalized, money for the product had been allocated, and thus there will be minimal or no changes will be made to the product, but that is normally just before mass production of the product. I believe that should not be the case for military products though.

I think even when 002 design had passed the supposedly tech freeze up time, if the Chinese find that the technology is already way behind time, then they will redesign the whole thing. But of course it will also be closely related to the timeframe the Chinese wanted their carrier to be produce. Because redesigning of a product takes time (lots of time) and so if the Chinese already had their design ready and they wanted to scrape that design, then the timeline will be pushed back further.

That might also be the case that J-10 take 18 years to design and developed...
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
big shrimps who claim that 002 got to be steam ususully use the following two arguments:

1. China urgently need carriers with cat, no further delay is allowed, steam is ready and mature, EM is not;

2. 002 design has passed the "tech freeze-up" time, the door has been shut.

after the emerging of the J-20, the development of J-10 has been de-classified, we now know all the major systems were developed during the long 18 years, if there's sth called "tech freeze-up", we probably would never see the J-10.

Okay, I just want to make sure that points 2 and 3 of your last post were your own opinion/deduction and not claims made by any big shrimps.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
1. China urgently need carriers with cat, no further delay is allowed, steam is ready and mature, EM is not;
Yes but easy to say... when we see the difficulties for US EMALS ! we can have some doubts for China who starts from zero, maybe get some plans for Ulyanovsk ? a steam cat seems really more realistic but it is one the most difficult system to build only USA do it from many decades.

And also China have no experience for Air Naval operations especialy tactics.This can not be bought
it is a knowledge, experience, sailors and only 2 Navies mastery entirely that USN and French Navy.

Ask to Popeye ;) the specialist he teach you for it :D
 

Intrepid

Major
Yes but easy to say... when we see the difficulties for US EMALS ! we can have some doubts for China who starts from zero, maybe get some plans for Ulyanovsk ? a steam cat seems really more realistic but it is one the most difficult system to build only USA do it from many decades.
China starts from zero - with steam cat and with EMALS. The difficulties to develop either cat should be equal for China. And I am quite shure, Chinese intellegent services know from every mistake the US did with EMALS. And Chinese people will avoid this mistakes, because they take their time to wait until US have tested it.

In the United States not always the better solution makes it to operational service. Sometimes it is more a question of which company has more supporters in politics. And that is the moment in which the Chinese overtake their opponents.
 

danielchin

Junior Member
8:00pm (Aug. 4, 2016)

skipramp.jpg
 

weig2000

Captain
heated debates about what catalyst system the 002 should use are spreading from tv to forums. at the center is rear adm Yin, who strongly supports the EM over the steam. according to Yin: all the tech issues in EM have been solved, there's no reason to adopt the obsolete steam system.

I'm not a big shrimp, but I think we can draw a few things from the debate:

1. the decision has not been made, otherwise the debate is pointless;

2. 002 is not under construction at the moment;

3. China may build one more STOBAR after cv17 to fill the gap.

The rating of the probabilities of each of the above - not to be precise, but more indicative.

1. 25%
It's difficult to believe the decision has not been made, given the importance and magnitude of the program, how many suppliers are involved and how long the time has elapsed since 001A was approved (2009), and there had no technology barriers for a conventional CATOBAR carrier.

It's possible though that the unexpected fast progress made in EMALS might have reopen the possibility of revisiting the decision and potentially incorporate EMALS into 001A. The tradeoff would be several years delay of 002's commission date.

I'm leaning toward the leadership will go ahead with the original plan and roughly the schedule after internal debates and the recent development in China's security environment.

2. 50%
2 is related to 1, obviously. Assuming the decision is go forward with the original plan and schedule (75%), then there is more than 50% of the chance that it is under construction now, although the exact definition of "under construction" is unclear? Do it mean the some of the modules have arrived at JNCX?

3. 10%
I wanted to give it a 0%, but since we don't really have any official or authoritative information, I consider it a low probability event. It doesn't make sense, and it's counter-intuitive.

If the debates around 002 is mostly due to the relative backwardness of steam catapult, then why go for another even less effective STOBAR? If the 001A itself wasn't in the original plan to begin with and was only an addition later on for a backup to 002 and earlier availability, it appears to me illogical to build yet another when everything for 002 is in place. For what?

Chinese leadership is not fanboy; the nation's carrier program is strategic and long-term and involves a lot of people and a large ecosystem. It shouldn't be changed drastically just because some quicker progress or setbacks. The debate about 002, in the end, comes down to early availability of capabilities, both equipment and personnel, vs some additional cost. The progress of China's carrier program, as it is, is faster than almost everyone expected only a few years ago. The best strategy is stick with the original plan and make sure it goes smoothly.

As I projected in this thread before, I believe China's carrier program will largely follow the progress below.

001A, conventional STOBAR, launch later 2016 or early 2017, commission in 2019
002, conventional CATOBAR, launch in 2019, commission in 2022/2023
002A, conventional CATOBAR, commission around 2025
003, nuclear CATOBAR with EMALS, commission around 2029
003A, nuclear CATOBAR with EMALS, commission between 2030/2035

Can anyone really complain if China accomplishes the above program according to plan and schedule?

I don't think China has any plan beyond 003/003A, but it would be difficult to believe they would stop there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top